Near death experience of Howard Storm

[Catholic_Lady]

How do you know he was led by emotions? It doesn't say anything about any sort of bad experience he has with religion that made him this way. He just sounds like a very skeptical person.

"...was not a very pleasant man by his own admission.  He was an avowed atheist and very hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it.  He would often use rage to control everyone around him and he didn't find joy in anything..."

That's not the description of a regular joe who just concludes that there's no rational reason to believe in God.  This describes someone who was hostile to the very notion of a supernatural deity and toward everyone who disagreed with him.  This is often how Christians who convert from "atheism" describe themselves.  He sounds more like a person who was either afraid/in denial or someone who hated religion because of something from their past.

What?? 

Lol, from my experience, most atheists here are absolutely hostile to religion. Many are hostile to religious people. I have noticed that you are not one of them, and I have appreciated that. 

Anyway, I don't think it would go over too well if you told all of these members that they are emotional and not rational atheists...

[Mister Agenda]

For me the most interesting point of this story is that he considered himself an atheist and took pride in that ideology, yet somehow ended up moving away from that and turning towards something he never believed to be truth. That's what's makes this story so interesting. I'm sure some would say he's just a fool. The only guarantee in life is death. You can even get away without paying taxes, but we are all mortal, and death will come. For me I think it's interesting to know about death to learn the lessons, before it comes to me, so I can grow in knowledge.

If someone said they used to consider themselves a Christian, and cited their frequent drunkenness, promiscuous homosexuality, and practice of stealing from the homeless as what they were like when they were a Christian, wouldn't it leave you scratching your head? Not that they couldn't have been a Christian and done all those things, but that they think it supports their claim of having been a Christian. It would make me think that they are so unfamiliar with Christian teaching that they aren't qualified to evaluate whether they were a Christian or not.

That's the feeling I get from Storm. A lot of people think they're atheists because they've been told (usually by preachers) that atheism is something that it's not. Atheism is not being a backslidden Christian, or being mad at God. It isn't trying to control people with your rage (not sure how that is supposed to work) or being contemptuous of people who don't agree with you. Atheists are as prone to that kind of behavior as anyone else, but they aren't features of atheism. Atheism has only one feature: not believing in God. It's not an ideology. Someone can have an atheistic ideology, but they can't have atheism as their ideology. The same is true of mere theism. They are both just differing opinions on one specific topic.

Storm may have been an atheist, but he sounds like someone trying to make his story more impressive by increasing the before and after contrast, but didn't know two atheists in real life and based his 'before pic' on the stereotypes he was familiar with.

Not saying he wasn't an atheist, just explaining why he's not a very convincing ex-atheist.

Just so you know, a lot of the atheists here are rational skeptics who think that a person's belief in something should be proportionate to the evidence for it. Not all rational skeptics are atheists, but atheism is much higher among rational skeptics than among the general population. A lot of the replies you're getting are coming from a place of rational skepticism, not atheism.

[Mister Agenda]

"...was not a very pleasant man by his own admission.  He was an avowed atheist and very hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it.  He would often use rage to control everyone around him and he didn't find joy in anything..."

That's not the description of a regular joe who just concludes that there's no rational reason to believe in God.  This describes someone who was hostile to the very notion of a supernatural deity and toward everyone who disagreed with him.  This is often how Christians who convert from "atheism" describe themselves.  He sounds more like a person who was either afraid/in denial or someone who hated religion because of something from their past.

What?? 

Lol, from my experience, most atheists here are absolutely hostile to religion. Many are hostile to religious people. I have noticed that you are not one of them, and I have appreciated that. 

Anyway, I don't think it would go over too well if you told all of these members that they are emotional and not rational atheists...

From my experience, most Catholics here adore over-generalizing about atheists and frequently don't even realize how insulting they are being.

[Ivan Denisovich]

Then on that we would just have to agree to disagree. It would be like me having a dream that Zeus was the true God or that the Devil was good or something lol. Possible? Yes. Likely? Not at all.

I see nothing unlikely in it so yes we have to agree to disagree.

Someone who is a staunch atheist all of a sudden quits his job, goes to seminary school, becomes a pastor, and dedicates his life to Christianity, all while still being an atheist inside? You don't find that extremely unlikely? Or strange at all? I guess we disagree on that as well, my friend.

Add word claim to your sentence and unlikeness vanish like snow.

But yes, atheist suddenly doing what you wrote would be something quite strange. Though brain damage could supposedly account for such change, if it indeed took place.

Of course, there is the possibility that he *wasn't* an atheist. But if he was, then yes, very very strange.

If is a key word here.

[Catholic_Lady]

What?? 

Lol, from my experience, most atheists here are absolutely hostile to religion. Many are hostile to religious people. I have noticed that you are not one of them, and I have appreciated that. 

Anyway, I don't think it would go over too well if you told all of these members that they are emotional and not rational atheists...

From my experience, most Catholics here adore over-generalizing about atheists and frequently don't even realize how insulting they are being.

I don't mean to insult anyone, but what I'm saying is 100% true based on my own experience. From what I have seen here it does seem most of you are hostile to religion. And many of you (don't know if it's most) are hostile to religious people.

[Excited Penguin]

Lol, the no true skeptic fallacy? 

I see no fallacy whatsoever here.

[Mister Agenda]

NDEs are NDEs, not DEs. They indicate nothing except that oxygen-starved brains do weird things.There is no evidence that any of that goes on "outside the brain". There is however, evidence that it doesn't

But our brains do weird things when we sleep, too. And yet when we wake up from a dream, we know it's a dream. Staunch atheists don't turn Christians from having a dream. Another thing is, why would people who are strong atheists be having dream like visions of God and Jesus in their heads when they are unconscious? And furthermore, why would they have dreams of God and Jesus being goodness and love? It seems that first of all, most atheists think that if God and Jesus do exist, they are evil anyway. Or at least uncaring.  

Obviously, something happened to these people that made them change overnight in such a drastic way, from becoming atheists who hate religion to becoming Christians. That's huge, almost supernatural in itself. Can a mere "dream" do that? Could it do that to you? 

Now, I'm not saying I believe all this. I have no dog in this fight. My faith does not rely on strangers' personal experiences, and some parts of this story kind of contradict my own beliefs. All I'm saying is the possibilities may be worth an objective look and some consideration. Because it is very strange indeed.

Why do you think atheists in India have NDE's involving Vishnu?

[Old Baby]

"...was not a very pleasant man by his own admission.  He was an avowed atheist and very hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it.  He would often use rage to control everyone around him and he didn't find joy in anything..."

That's not the description of a regular joe who just concludes that there's no rational reason to believe in God.  This describes someone who was hostile to the very notion of a supernatural deity and toward everyone who disagreed with him.  This is often how Christians who convert from "atheism" describe themselves.  He sounds more like a person who was either afraid/in denial or someone who hated religion because of something from their past.

What?? 

Lol, from my experience, most atheists here are absolutely hostile to religion. Many are hostile to religious people. I have noticed that you are not one of them, and I have appreciated that. 

Anyway, I don't think it would go over too well if you told all of these members that they are emotional and not rational atheists...

I have not found most atheists here to be hostile, certainly not to the point that Storm describes himself.  People here seem to have varying degrees of tolerance for bullshit, but that's different than being hostile to the people themselves.  I have run into many an atheist who I would call hostile, but none so far on this forum.

[Catholic_Lady]

Then on that we would just have to agree to disagree. It would be like me having a dream that Zeus was the true God or that the Devil was good or something lol. Possible? Yes. Likely? Not at all.

I see nothing unlikely in it so yes we have to agree to disagree.

Someone who is a staunch atheist all of a sudden quits his job, goes to seminary school, becomes a pastor, and dedicates his life to Christianity, all while still being an atheist inside? You don't find that extremely unlikely? Or strange at all? I guess we disagree on that as well, my friend.

Add word claim to your sentence and unlikeness vanish like snow.

But yes, atheist suddenly doing what you wrote would be something quite strange. Though brain damage could supposedly account for such change, if it indeed took place.

Of course, there is the possibility that he *wasn't* an atheist. But if he was, then yes, very very strange.

If is a key word here.

Ok, so we both agree that if he really was an atheist, then what he did with his life afterwards is very unlikely to have been a lie/scam. 

I've been googling some stuff about him to see if he really was an atheist or not.

[Catholic_Lady]

What?? 

Lol, from my experience, most atheists here are absolutely hostile to religion. Many are hostile to religious people. I have noticed that you are not one of them, and I have appreciated that. 

Anyway, I don't think it would go over too well if you told all of these members that they are emotional and not rational atheists...

I have not found most atheists here to be hostile, certainly not to the point that Storm describes himself.  People here seem to have varying degrees of tolerance for bullshit, but that's different than being hostile to the people themselves.  I have run into many an atheist who I would call hostile, but none so far on this forum.

Sometimes you have to be one yourself to really feel the hostility.