Still struggling.

[Brian37]

Yes, but without knowing the tactics of theists, "that just sounds silly" isn't enough. Plenty of laypersons can scoff at something only later to be sucked into the trap of a slick snake oil salesman. Kid have a better excuse for swallowing it because they are too young to understand the importance of critical thinking. But even adults can basically not care either way, then suddenly have an event that shakes them, to where they feel the need to find "something" to give them a sense they are not alone, even if what they pick is completely false. 

And there literally IS a scientific explanation as to why humans gap fill with god claims, and that as well is important to understand as well. 

So while Hitchens was right "That which can be asserted without evidence can be easily dismissed without evidence" or the layperson's version "If it sound too good to be true, it probably is", while true, still isn't enough.

I understand what you are saying as I was once a Christian. But now, after actually reading the bible and looking at the facts, I couldn't be converted back without God himself appearing before me.

I got you, but even with that, be careful, it is not impossible for human beings to go from lucid, to having a future mental illness or or brain disease. The lucid you now, sure, I couldn't go back either now that I know the scientific reality. But I can't insure my brain will always be scientifically lucid. Our bodies are imperfect and can have problems with disease and age that would cause us to do and say things we would not in a healthy lucid state.

"Not in my right mind". Yep, but only when you are in your right mind.

[robvalue]

It's great to hear from you!

You're doing really well. A struggle such as the one you're having is totally to be expected, and you're showing great strength to not just throw in the towel and let your emotional programming run the show. Logic will defeat religion every single step of the way, I can guarantee it as much as I can guarantee anything. Break it down, write it down on a piece of paper. Analyse it logically, and you'll bust through anything your emotions throw at you.

The difference between talking to free thinkers like us and talking to those who want to suck you back into religion is that we (most of us at least!) won't expect you to take our word for anything. We'll encourage you to go think for yourself, do research and see if you agree with what we are saying. In contrast, religious fanatics will do all they can to stop you thinking for yourself, and to just submit to their claims.

Truth doesn't need protecting, it doesn't need ploys and cheap tricks.

Keep on fighting, and let us know how you get on! We're here to help you all the way. I have a bit on my website about talking to family and friends about loss of faith, in case it's of any help. Click here if you are interested!

[Socratic Meth Head]

Okay, my Mom knows. She is just now starting to do Family Bible Study. Out of seemingly nowhere. If there is anything I have questions about I'll post it here. Afterwards i'll tell my mom "I believe what I want and you believe what you want". I was hoping this wouldn't happen because the doubt that plauged me so is back. It's definitely OCD because I got anxiety about becoming a Christian. It's all I could think about all day today and I gotta address this with my therapist now. Well, good things don't last forever...

---

Okay, nothing significant happened. Within 5 minutes my mom and dad got in an argument about the dog. I said I was going back to my room and I was met with no resistance. I have bought The God Delusion on eBay and I plan to read it and hope it crushes this doubt, along with speaking to my therapist.

[KevinM1]

Yeah, talking to your therapist is definitely a good idea. The unfortunate reality is that religion tends to reinforce mental illness due to its pervasive nature. It's really designed to generate doubts and fears, and then exploit them to create subservience. It makes the disease it claims to cure.

[robvalue]

That sounds... relatively promising! How did they find out, did you straight out tell them?

Good idea, I've heard The God a Delusion is a great read.

[Socratic Meth Head]

Yeah, talking to your therapist is definitely a good idea.  The unfortunate reality is that religion tends to reinforce mental illness due to its pervasive nature.  It's really designed to generate doubts and fears, and then exploit them to create subservience.  It makes the disease it claims to cure.

I told my friend DJ, he owns his own gym and is a martial arts guys who lives near me. We got on the discussion while I was working out and he probably got worried that I didn't believe and told my parents. I really feel hopeless. Everything I see I doubt, Everyone I meet must re-assure me, Everytime I leave the house I get horrible anxiety. I even hallucinated because of it, while driving I saw a dark figure dead in front of me, I slammed on the breaks, almost going off the road, only to see it was gone. I am watching a documentary about Richard Dawkins (If you couldn't tell already I admire him a lot) and there is a nerve that goes down the neck and up the neck again, only to go to a destination 2 inches from where it started. I know it makes no sense for it to go that way, but my mind feels so certain that it makes sense and I get horrible doubt about the littlest fucking thing.

I know it seems kinda, weird I guess I'll say, to get so worried about whether or not you think a nerve's path makes any sense, but I can't help it.

I'll try and explain what it feels like for me for people that don't know. This is a bit personal, I don't like getting very personal on the internet.

I have had POCD and Harm OCD. I am currently dealing with HOCD, and I believe me getting anxiety about turning into a christian is some form of
OCD undiscovered to me. May I say before this, I am not a homophobe and I have had gay friends. I am sorry if this is seen as offensive to anyone.
 I just wish to show what things bother me in the best sense possible. Anyway, imagine you are out walking around. Having a great day. Out of nowhere you see a good looking member of the same sex. You immediatley say "Oh No, did I find him attractive? I know I didn't, I didn't get sexually aroused I know it. Did I?" You have pop-up thoughts like "You are gay, your whole life of being attracted to women is a lie." you get a shockwave of fear and doubt and now all you can think about is whether or not you are gay. You check, you watch gay porn to make sure you are not aroused or you watch straight porn to make sure you are aroused. Deep down, you know you are not gay. But you have so much doubt you can't grasp what you are and what you are not. It sounds so silly. And yet it is so distressing to anyone who has it. Even Gay people get anxiety about turning straight. Last time I tried explaining what I was dealing with. I had twenty people messaging me on some other forum website calling me gay. Anxiety sure followed and I never went back to those forums again.

I get this, and also thoughts like "This trip with athiesm is just a phase, you will always be a Christian." And I get a lot of anxiety. I look at the evidence and I doubt so much that it is indescribable. Its like if OCD could speak it would be saying "Ignore the evidence, What I say goes." And I am consumed with doubt.


For all of you this sounds so silly and something I do not need to worry about. To me, it's a horrible issue with constant obsession, checking, and anxiety.

[robvalue]

It doesn't sound silly at all. Thank you for sharing it with us. I think it helps a lot to talk these things through, and you've hopefully seen this forum is very supportive and understanding.

I've been through extreme anxiety myself, so I can certainly relate to that. I know how horrible it can be. I had it so bad it crippled me, I was unable to do anything at times at all because I was convinced something bad would happen. I didn't even know what, just "something bad". As logical as I am, overwhelming emotions could overrule it easily.

In your case religion has made this so much worse by giving you specific things to be anxious about. Christianity is a total mindfuck, and designed to make you doubt and loathe yourself. It breaks your leg, then sells you a crutch as Don Baker on the Atheist a Experience likes to say.

It is really good that the rational part of you can see all of what is happening for what it is, even when your brain is tormenting itself with all these terrible thoughts.

I would hope your parents would be able to put aside their religious convictions and support you through this, by recognising how much harder the religious doubt is making your OCD. They needn't "agree" with you about your atheism, just to care about you, and what you need to do to get better. If they care more about their religion than they do about your wellbeing, they are shocking parents.

[Socratic Meth Head]

It doesn't sound silly at all. Thank you for sharing it with us. I think it helps a lot to talk these things through, and you've hopefully seen this forum is very supportive and understanding.

I've been through extreme anxiety myself, so I can certainly relate to that. I know how horrible it can be. I had it so bad it crippled me, I was unable to do anything at times at all because I was convinced something bad would happen. I didn't even know what, just "something bad". As logical as I am, overwhelming emotions could overrule it easily.

In your case religion has made this so much worse by giving you specific things to be anxious about. Christianity is a total mindfuck, and designed to make you doubt and loathe yourself. It breaks your leg, then sells you a crutch as Don Baker on the Atheist a Experience likes to say.

It is really good that the rational part of you can see all of what is happening for what it is, even when your brain is tormenting itself with all these terrible thoughts.

I would hope your parents would be able to put aside their religious convictions and support you through this, by recognising how much harder the religious doubt is making your OCD. They needn't "agree" with you about your atheism, just to care about you, and what you need to do to get better.

Thanks so much for your understanding. Whenever I tell people this, usually they call me gay or homophobic.
Mom always told me atheist are a grumpy, horrible group of people with no morals. You all seem to have more morals than any religious person I know.

[SteelCurtain]

It doesn't sound silly to me at all.

I have been diagnosed with extremely mild OCPD, which isn't the same as OCD, but some of the manifestations can be similar.

You have to practice allowing yourself to be unsure. It's okay to not make a yes or no, black or white, dichotomous decision about everything. Finding a man attractive wouldn't mean anything other than that you are human. I see men I find attractive all the time, and I identify as straight. People are good looking, that would be normal.

If you are still caught in the clutches of your indoctrination, then the best advice I can give is to come up with some sort of thought stopper that lets you off the hook. Be a neutral observer for 6 months. You are neither theist or atheist. You are assessing the situation. Write a journal, if it helps. Make a list of all of the things that are convincing to you on either side of the argument. Then look for corroborating evidence. Let no one---atheist or theist---tell you what to believe. The only way you are going to convince yourself that the doubts you have are okay is to practice allowing yourself to have doubts and see them through. Stop beating yourself up for doubting anything. That's skepticism, and that, to me, is the most healthy of brain states.

You will get there. Hell, you might re-discover god in your search. That would be okay, too. You'll be welcome here to vent just the same. You, Kingpin, and Catholic_Lady can share the terrarium we keep the theists we like in.

[robvalue]

You are very welcome

Sadly, propaganda against atheists like that is commonplace. It is ridiculous to make any generalization about atheists, as they are people who only have in common one lack of belief on a single issue.

That didn't sound the least bit homophobic to me. It sounds like the direct result of indoctrinated programming, and it's not your fault at all. I'm a firm believer that whatever goes on in someone's head is their business only anyway. It's actions that count. But I see nothing wrong with your thoughts, they are an instinctive reaction to the nonsense that has been forced into your brain.

I hope that, given time, the rational part of your brain will see more and more that nothing bad is happening as a result of "losing faith". I've never been a theist of any description, and things have been just fine for me, as far as you can expect them to be. It's crystal clear to me what a con all religions are, and that they thrive on indoctrinating young, helpless children who are reliant on their parents for information about the world.

PS: excellent advice Steel!