I just don't get it

[Simon Moon]

Perpetual question of why some people believe in wizards and delusions, it's like asking why are some people insisting on being racist? Very similar thing of deluding yourself and approaching world with this emotions that are planted in you by others and for some reason totally ignoring rationality and evidence.
Maybe it's just that people didn't learn how to think.
And also let's say you're Catholic and you decide you can't believe in that nonsense anymore, next step is facing with the fact that your parents, teachers and sometimes whole society blatantly lied to you, wasted your time and in many cases your life - which is not something that many people can do.

How about the people who have come to believe in God who were not raised that way?  CS Lewis was a very educated person who came to the faith from being an atheist.

But he did not have good reasons. He pretty much fell for the flawed philosophical arguments for god. 

Not to mention his own flawed "liar, lunatic, lord" false trilemma. 

If billions of intelligent, educated people have said that they experienced God, I would think that there might be something there.

The "something" that is there that you mention, is the human brain we were born with. We are pattern seeking, experience misinterpreting, agency imagining beings. These cause humans to misinterpret natural brain states incorrectly as an outside being. 

There are 1000's of people that experience alien abductions. Does that mean they actually occur?

You just assume that a God who doesn't have to follow the rules of the natural world doesn't exist because you can't prove his existence through natural means.  You're trapped by the boundaries of that little box you live in.

That "little box" you refer to is the only method that can be proven to be a path to truth: demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument and valid/sound logic. 

Faith is not a path to truth. It is gullibility.

Science has no idea of what exists beyond the boundaries of our universe.

Yes, therefore there are universe creating gnomes that live outside of space/time. Right?

The fact that there are unknowns, and there will always be unknowns, does not mean your explanation is true. 

If he is God, he can reveal himself to me and the billions of others that he has revealed himself to.  It doesn't prove it to you, but it does prove it to those to whom he speaks.

The thing is, that your claims of a god revealing himself to you, looks identical to those of us on the outside, to the 1 billion Hindus and 1.5 billion Muslims claiming that their gods have also revealed themselves to them. 

And on a side note, if Saul deserved a "Damascus Road experience", why not me?


 

Please don't judge those you don't know, and are more intelligent than you, and say that they don't know how to think.

They sure don't know how to think critically. At least about their god beliefs. 
[/quote]

[Lek]

And what god is that? Your religion, like all other religions, don't just have problem with science but all other religions too. Christians think that the only route to salvation is accepting Jesus as one’s savior. If you’re a Muslim, that doctrine will send you straight to hell. The Quran also claims that Jesus was slain but not crucified, with an impostor dying on the cross. Jews, of course, don’t see Jesus as the Messiah at all.
Hinduism has many gods. Jehovah’s Witnesses think that precisely 144,000 of them will make it to heaven, while the others who are saved will inhabit a paradise on Earth. In contrast, Laestadianism, a conservative branch of Lutheranism, considers itself the only true faith: only its roughly sixty thousand adherents are eligible for salvation, with the billions of others on Earth doomed to eternal torment.

Black Muslims believe that whites are a race of devils, created less than seven thousand years ago from selective breeding by a mad black scientist named Yakub. And, of course, there is Xenu and his hydrogen bombs. Add to these all the conflicting doctrines and equally conflicting moral codes that differ in how one should treat women, gays, sex before or outside of marriage, criminals, animals, and so on. They can’t all be right.

Your argument doesn't hold water.  The God I'm speaking of is the one true God who has revealed himself to numerous billions over the history of mankind.  If God has revealed himself to a person, then that person knows the one God.  There is only one truth, but there are many beliefs and opinions among believers..  Let me give an analogy.  The truth that we exist here on this planet has been given to everyone in this forum.  We all know that truth.  Some us think that this world we live in was created by God from nothing.  Some think it may have always existed from eternity.  Others might think it just popped into existence from nothing all by itself.  The truth that we are here has been revealed to us all, but we don't all have the same beliefs about how we arrived here.  Most of us probably agree that there was an evolutionary process that occurred, but details about how how it occurred are understood differently, even among fellow atheists.  But, yet we agree that this process took place.  There is only one truth concerning how these processes took place, but we don't all share the same opinion of what that truth is.

[The Grand Nudger]

Were you going to dispute his argument at any point, that all of the competing claims can't be right? Do you think that they can be? No...you weren't...you responded with the notion of "one truth" over and over. You didn't demonstrate that his argument didn't hold water...you agreed with it......

[Lek]

Were you going to dispute his argument at any point, that all of the competing claims can't be right?  Do you think that they can be?  No...you weren't...you responded with the notion of "one truth" over and over.  You didn't demonstrate that his argument didn't hold water...you agreed with it......

OK. You're right. They can't all be right. But it doesn't demonstrate that christianity is not right. The discussion, though, stemmed from my statement that God can reveal himself to anyone he wants to and that he doesn't have to follow natural laws. Also, he can reveal himself to people of different faiths, even though they may all have different beliefs. We can have people of different faiths believing in the same God, even if they are not all perfectly correct in the tenants of their faiths.

[Lek]

And on a side note, if Saul deserved a "Damascus Road experience", why not me?

Why should you have one? Or me, for that matter?

[The Grand Nudger]

Then neither you nor I have any way of determining what is, or if indeed there even -is-, this  "one truth" of which you spoke.  Your comments are incoherent with reference to themselves. Hell, as far as you know, the god you refer to as "Christ "or "Yahweh" is, more accurately, Ra.

[Old Baby]

Lek, do you have anything better to offer than "I know God is real because God told me so"?

Do you think everyone here should immediately convert to Christianity because you think God talked to you?

If I told you that God personally revealed to me that Islam was the true religion, would you take me seriously?

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

[Lek]

Lek, do you have anything better to offer than "I know God is real because God told me so"?

Do you think everyone here should immediately convert to Christianity because you think God talked to you?

If I told you that God personally revealed to me that Islam was the true religion, would you take me seriously?

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

Actually, the only way anyone becomes a true christian is if God speaks to them.  And I not specifically talking about hearing words, but rather communicating.  I'm just telling you how it is, which is also what the bible says.  I'd like to see everyone convert, but we all must receive it from God or it won't happen; and I can't make that happen.

I believe Islam is a step toward finding God.  We're all somewhere in the process.  I think God has made muslims aware of his existence; or rather those who have truly opened themselves to him.  The same goes for anyone who truly wants to know him.  That's not saying that Islam is the true faith, but that they have knowledge of God.  They know he exists.

[Fake Messiah]

Actually, the only way anyone becomes a true christian is if God speaks to them.  And I not specifically talking about hearing words, but rather communicating.  I'm just telling you how it is, which is also what the bible says.  I'd like to see everyone convert, but we all must receive it from God or it won't happen; and I can't make that happen.

So there you go, there is absolutely no evidence for existence of God except that "he's talking to you". And for a God who makes no difference in this world is no God at all. Not to mention that this kind of wishful thinking approach to the world is not good for shit. Knowledge isn’t knowledge unless it is factual, so “private knowledge” that comes through revelation or intuition isn’t really knowledge. It's not something you can use to fix your plumbing, your car, heal sick people, find lost objects by retracing our steps rather than looking elsewhere, praying for the answer or waiting for god to make you feel of how to heal some sick person.

That's why you have racists because they are led to believe of what they should feel because they're missing the crucial ingredients of verification and consensus. Or Holocaust denial, based largely on wish-thinking, has been refuted both in the courts and by historians armed with empirical evidence or should I say scientific method.
Because there is no end what "reality" can be when you're just relying on your feelings.

I believe Islam is a step toward finding God.  We're all somewhere in the process.  I think God has made Muslims aware of his existence; or rather those who have truly opened themselves to him.  The same goes for anyone who truly wants to know him.  That's not saying that Islam is the true faith, but that they have knowledge of God.  They know he exists.

And again that is your personal watered-down version of faith that is not held by most people, who accept instead a personal god who intervenes in the world. I mean are we seeing all believers as fundamentalists or scriptural literalists, and that we neglect the “strong and sophisticated” versions of faith held by liberal theologians? But it's the same problem with "liberal" believers that accept scientific stuff like evolution saying “The Bible is not a textbook of science.” but that is a rationale for believers to pick and choose what they consider really true in scripture. You know "I'll just believe the 'good' stuff." Because Bible (and therefore Christianity) is clear about other religions that they are wrong and people of other faiths are not even human beings, you don't get to choose what you believe you have priests and holy book tell you.

[Joods]

Actually, the only way anyone becomes a true christian is if God speaks to them.  And I not specifically talking about hearing words, but rather communicating.  I'm just telling you how it is, which is also what the bible says.  I'd like to see everyone convert, but we all must receive it from God or it won't happen; and I can't make that happen.

I believe Islam is a step toward finding God.  We're all somewhere in the process.  I think God has made muslims aware of his existence; or rather those who have truly opened themselves to him.  The same goes for anyone who truly wants to know him.  That's not saying that Islam is the true faith, but that they have knowledge of God.  They know he exists.

Continuing to talk shit will only earn you reincarnation as toilet paper. God doesn't speak to anyone. Period. You've yet to produce proof of any existence of any god. Either put up or shut up. If you can't produce proof, then quit while you're ahead.

And I've said repeatedly in other threads that such a god has yet to take me up on my offer to buy lunch and discuss stuff. So no. There is NO god that speaks to anyone. That is just you needing some serious medication.

Furthermore, how can you tell anyone how it is? Your lame excuse of it's "what the bible says" is a piss poor answer. The bible isn't proof of the existence of any god. It's literature. And it should come with a warning label for anyone who wants to try and take it seriously. And finally - I'm really glad you can't make anyone convert. Religious people are dangerous. It's been proven time and time again via something called "War". Get over it.