My views on objective morality

[LadyForCamus]

Thank you very much Luckie for all the effort you went to It was most kind of you.

I would hope everyone can now move on from this. I agree, I don't see CL as in any way a troll. Whatever your opinion of how she handled this particular thread, I don't think it is representative of her general desire to engage us as people.

Yes, sorry!  Thanks very much Luckie for all your hard work!  We certainly didn't make it easy for you.  ❤️

[Joods]

Fuck off Benny. You're just as hate-filled and spiteful as a teenager who's mommy won't let them stay out past their curfew. You could have responded to Luckies apology so much better than you did. Instead you use that as an excuse to get more digs in on a person who's, quite honestly been through enough. And that speaks more volumes about your character than it does about anything else.

[bennyboy]

Fuck off Benny. You're just as hate-filled and spiteful as a teenager who's mommy won't let them stay out past their curfew. You could have responded to Luckies apology so much better than you did. Instead you use that as an excuse to get more digs in on a person who's, quite honestly been through enough. And that speaks more volumes about your character than it does about anything else.

See, here's the thing.  None of what you are saying is an actual argument.  When I say CL was trolling, it was because of her repeated unwillingness to participate in the thread.  It was because she had weak or outright dumb ideas, and wouldn't support them.  At no point did I tell her she was a horrible person, or tell her to fuck off, or anything like that.  I attempted repeatedly to engage her in her OP, to address questions to her about her God idea and her idea of morality, and she kept dodging.  So when I said she was a troll, I wasn't just name-calling: it was a description of the quality of her participation in her own thread.

As for you, I don't think you have ever participated in a philosophical discussion-- at least not in a way impactful enough to make any impression.  And yet here you are, flaming me and telling me to fuck off and telling me what a horrible human being I am.

In the end, I find it hard to give a non-zero number of fucks what you or any of CL's champions have to say.  The fact is that this is a philosophy forum, this is a philosophy thread, and my character has nothing to do with the doing of philosophy.  So if pointing out bullshit for what it is is "hate-filled," then fine.  I hate bullshit.  So say something halfways interesting or intelligent about morality, or begone with you and the rest of your moral-support club back to whatever cat-meme forums you've swarmed in from.

[Losty]

I wish this thread would die. Can't someone else start a new thread about objective morality. This thread gives me ulcers.

[Catholic_Lady]

This thread was never meant to be a "Here, let me prove something to you guys" type thread. That's not how I operate, not what I'm about, and not what I'm here for. And the people who have followed me on here for the past 8 months that I've been a member, know that. This is only the second thread I've started on this forum where I present my views about something. The other one being my thread about Hell. Every other serious thread I've started on here has been to ask you guys about your views because I think it's interesting to discuss/share different view points. 

The subject of morality being objective has come up several times in the forum, and when I saw the video, I thought the man explained my own position pretty well... and so I posted it. It also helps explain part of the reason why I believe in God, and people are always asking me that, so I thought it would be appropriate to share the video.     

I did not know that posting this in the philosophy section was supposed to mean I was putting forth an argument to be debated, and for that I apologize. I don't have much experience in the philosophy section and was not aware of what the standards here were. The reason I did post it here was because the topic of morality is a philosophical topic to begin with, and the man in the video I posted is a philosophy professor and was speaking as such. Other than that, I really didn't think that much into it and like I said, it never crossed my mind that the philosophy section was specifically meant to be for debates and not appropriate for simply sharing our thoughts about a philosophical topic.

Nonetheless, I think doing it was stupid of me, regardless of if it was in the philosophy section or not. Rest assured I will never start another thread where I present my views about something, either on this section, or any other. Because it seems people would expect me to debate or show concrete "proof" of why I believe as I do, rather than just have friendly conversation with exchange of ideas... and that's not what I'm here for.       

As for "abandoning this thread," I honestly did not mean to do so. Well, except the first time when I was being accused of defending rape, but once that was blown over, I did not purposely abandon the thread. The last 2ish weeks have been very busy for me. I was fostering 3 baby kittens who needed to be bottle fed, were very sick for the majority of the time they were here, and generally needed constant attention and constant clean up. I was working extra hours to compensate for the time I'd be off while recovering from the surgery I was supposed to have this past Wednesday, and I was doing a lot to prepare for the surgery in the first place. I simply did not have the time or the energy to keep entertaining a thread that I felt had long run its course, as I felt the circles were getting repetitive and I was just addressing the same questions multiple times over. 

Anyway, I've learned a lot from this. Not about the topic itself, but about the nature of this place and some of the people here. I will take that all into account from here on out.

[Neo-Scholastic]

...like I said, it never crossed my mind that the philosophy section was specifically meant to be for debates and not appropriate for simply sharing our thoughts about a philosophical topic.

You are not stupid, but I do think you're being a little naive. Debate and discussion go hand in hand. A discussion is not merely about everyone stating what they believe, but also understanding why everyone believes what they do. On AF vigorous debate is encouraged. Unfortunately it is often vicious and some people behave like jerks more readily.

[Catholic_Lady]

...like I said, it never crossed my mind that the philosophy section was specifically meant to be for debates and not appropriate for simply sharing our thoughts about a philosophical topic.

You are not stupid, but I do think you're being a little naive. Debate and discussion go hand in hand. A discussion is not merely about everyone stating what they believe, but also understanding why everyone believes what they do. On AF vigorous debate is encouraged. Unfortunately it is often vicious and some people behave like jerks more readily.

You are right, I was being naive to think this wouldn't turn so ugly. I understand discussion is not simply about stating what you believe, but also about talking about it and explaining it, which I felt I did. When I talk to my Muslim friend about his beliefs, we do just fine without heated debate, but I think it's more common for that to happen when you do it with friends over dinner rather than an atheist online forum. I guess I was starting to feel a little too comfortable here.

[robvalue]

Back on topic...

[In my opinion...]

When someone says, "My morality comes from God", technically they are correct. God is themselves, or an idealised version of themself. So their morality comes from themself.

This explains the disconnect where some people say, "God would never ask me to [do something horrible]". No he wouldn't, because God is them. They wouldn't ask themselves to do it. It also explains how God can agree with everyone, while they disagree with each other, about morality.

For those who say that they would refuse to do what God says if they can conceive of the situation, this is where they identify that this "God" would no longer be them, and so they're not interested in what it has to say.

The moment a theist realises that they are God is probably the moment the spell will be broken.

[robvalue]

It also explains why many theists take arguments/insults against God so very personally, and have trouble distinguishing between their beliefs and their identity.

And it explains how they are able to so accurately interpret the text to mean exactly what God (themselves) wants it to mean.

The sad part is where they've been forced to believe that God doesn't want them to do something that they actually see no harm in, or wants them to do something they see as harmful. In these cases, something has to give, and often it can be the person's morality. This further explains the anger some theists seem to feel at the freedom atheists have to do some completely harmless activities. "You just want to sin..." = "I really want to do that but I can't let myself".

[robvalue]

How long have you got mate?

It also explains how God knows everything they know, but can't provide them with any actual information they didn't already know (or could easily find out). It explains how they can be so certain "God" exists, and that they are in his presence. And that he is "hearing" them, and "replying". And how they always know what God wants. And how they can be sure God is "good".

It explains how they know which magic story book is real and which isn't.