Theist zone

[CoolBoy]

Although I am atheist I have no doubt that Jesus existed. He is recorded on censuses from the time.

The debate is on whether he is the son of God. As I don't believe in God then obviously he isn't.

Probably another crackpot claiming that he is. Even today people claim they are the son of God, or Jesus in another form.

[Godscreated]

God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, God is Holy and Righteous, God is just and good and this list could go on and on.

If he is all loving and all powerful why doesn't he put an end to suffering - hunger, thirst, terrible illnesses? That he doesn't shows that if he does exist he is not all loving and all powerful. If he was he would end it - if I was all powerful I would, and I'm not all loving. If he is all loving he is therefore not all powerful.

Why do you believe that God should pull you or anyone else out of problems caused by mankind.
Now who's making a circular argument (if He's not that then He's not this and if He's not this then He's not that) man you're making me dizzy. Because God does not operate in the way you think He should doesn't mean He is not loving or powerful, what it does mean He's just plain ol' smarter than you are.
If God were to put a stop to the things you have mentioned you would not be satisfied with that you would ask for more and more until you would lose the freewill you have. Then what? God's omniscients gives Him the ability to know what is best for all people even if you and I do not see it that way.

[Shell B]

you would not be satisfied with that you would ask for more and more until you would lose the freewill you have

How would getting more good and less suffering out of life make you lose your free will?

I really hate the god is a meanie because of free will, so it's okay argument. My parents would never have watched me die of starvation, but I still have free will. My father would not sit back and watch while his children were raped, shot, struck down with disease, etc., but I still have free will. I really don't get this argument.

[Watson]

It's more like this, however, Shell B; your mother or father would not and will not constantly get you out of problems you yourself have created, would they? If you did something that put you in terrible debt and it was all your fault, would you expect your parents to 'wave their hands and make it go away'? This is what Atheists ask of God, and it does not work like that. Then you do not learn anything from your mistakes aside from 'Mommy and Daddy will get me out of anything I mess up on.'

In this case, of course, it is God who refuses to 'wave His hand and make it go away.' He isn't going to make war go away because He didn't create war; WE DID. He isn't going to make poverty go away because He didn't create poverty; WE DID. If He made it all 'just go away', then we would learn nothing and experience nothing, and we would continue to make the same mistakes we have in the past over and over again.

Btw, Godhead- I will look over the David Icke stuff you mentioned when I have access to a computer that can run it, but for now I'm going to have to hold off answering you.

[Shell B]

It's more like this, however, Shell B; your mother or father would not and will not constantly get you out of problems you yourself have created, would they?

So, starving children in Africa who are being raped by out of control militia got themselves into that?

If you did something that put you in terrible debt and it was all your fault, would you expect your parents to 'wave their hands and make it go away'?

That is irrelevant. I spoke of starvation and war, not debt.

This is what Atheists ask of God, and it does not work like that.

Thank you so much for clarifying that. /sarcasm I ask nothing of god, as he/she/it does not exist. For clarification purposes, I will say this, I do not ask why god does not help me out of debt (nor would I, if I were actually in debt). I ask why you believe in an entity that would allow children to be raped, murdered, etc.

Then you do not learn anything from your mistakes aside from 'Mommy and Daddy will get me out of anything I mess up on.'

Your point is correct; however, in this context, it is still irrelevant.

In this case, of course, it is God who refuses to 'wave His hand and make it go away.' He isn't going to make war go away because He didn't create war; WE DID.

I did no such thing.

He isn't going to make poverty go away because He didn't create poverty; WE DID.

I didn't do that, either.

If He made it all 'just go away', then we would learn nothing and experience nothing, and we would continue to make the same mistakes we have in the past over and over again.

I obviously don't believe in god, but for argument's sake, I'll say this: He is fucking omnipotent (supposedly). It would hardly be too much to ask. He wouldn't even break a sweat if he just kept helping like a good deity.

[Minimalist]

Although I am atheist I have no doubt that Jesus existed. He is recorded on censuses from the time.

Um...excuse me but what the fuck are you talking about?

[tackattack]

I would say that God's Love is an unchanging, ever-present, father-like best interest, compassion, mercy and caring for the needs of everything he's created to make it short.

[Ace Otana]

Although I am atheist I have no doubt that Jesus existed. He is recorded on censuses from the time.

The debate is on whether he is the son of God. As I don't believe in God then obviously he isn't.

Probably another crackpot claiming that he is. Even today people claim they are the son of God, or Jesus in another form.

Jesus probably did exist but not as the person many people believe. Just another crackpot that pushed his luck too far and ended up killed. Many people even then claimed to be god, and many would use magic tricks to sway them over. Jesus was just another idiot trying to sway followers over. Convinced a good few but what made him stand out from the rest was his execution that turned him into a martyr. The biggest mistake the Romans made. They should of locked him up till age killed him and out of public view. That way his new religion would fall before it could start.
I blame the Romans for the Christian headake we have now.

[Godhead]

Ace -

That's not very benevolent.

[Ace Otana]

Ace -

That's not very benevolent.