Why the whole Adam and Eve Fall story makes no sense

[ignoramus]

[robvalue]

Question for all theists:

If you're presented with a random story, how do you go about determining whether or not it might be a real story? How would you teach a child to tell the difference?

This is a bit worrying. No reply yet.

[LadyForCamus]

There is a magical third option...

I went to see Jesus once. Turns out his powers were greatly exaggerated...


http://youtu.be/q3rLof2cnzg

[FebruaryOfReason]

I've never ignored evidence, unlike you I seek it all the time. I seek the truth (proof) in scriptures all the time, you've just never considered such a thing. In your own mind are there contradictions in scriptures. When Christians bring up contradictions in evolution or other sciences the atheist say we will find the truth in the future just give us time, yet you would not consider this viable for Christians to say about the scriptures, now would you.

GC

No, I would not consider this viable for Christians to say about scripture. Because your scripture is finished. Your Bible is a finished book and can never change, regardless of what happens in the future. Indeed, one of its final lessons is that it should never be changed: (Revelation 22:18-19)

"If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. 19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

By contrast, the scientific position is continually open to change. We changed our ideas about phlogiston and calx because it turned out they were wrong. And it led to a better understanding of combustion.
Instead of slavishly adhering to a book that tries to tell us you can create a woman from a man's rib, we actually looked at the human body, and it helped us to stop people bleeding to death during operations.
We used to think that the world was composed of just four elements, and water was one of these, indivisible and absolute. But then chemists succeeded in synthesizing water from two different elements. So we changed our mind.
We tried to make gold from base substances, but when we found out that this was not possible using chemical reactions, we revised our ideas, and in the process we discovered how each element had certain characteristics that predicted the existence of other elements, which we have now found.
We revised our ideas about motion as envisaged by classical mechanics, and it enabled us land a probe on the surface of a comet.

I don't imagine that this process will eventually bring us round to the idea of a God with suspiciously anthropomorphic features who leaves us only a single book as "evidence" of himself, who arbitrarily murders his devotees with the same apparent relish as he murders unbelievers, and who suffers his priests to rape children for years without bothering to intervene despite assertions that he is omnipotent and omniscient.

We look at the world around us, we test what we think, and if we are wrong, we change our minds. We don't look to a single set of assertions to justify our opinions. We look at the real world.

But you only seek "proof" in scriptures. Why not anywhere else?

I have indeed looked for truth in scripture. I looked at the Bible and it tried to tell me that a five hundred year old man could build a boat big enough to hold two of every animal in the world. This is consistent with the Bible being fiction rather than fact.

I asked myself how many five hundred year old men I'd ever met, and the answer was "none". I asked myself what happened to people as they aged, and the answer was "they become physically less strong, much less able to build boats". No one I've ever met over the age of 90 was capable of building a boat. This is consistent with the Bible being fiction rather than fact

I asked myself why the Bible offers no concrete prediction we could test, why it contains no specific fact that would not be common knowledge to a set of scribes living a few thousand years ago. The absence of such concrete, specific, testable predictions is exactly what we would expect if they were simply making it up rather than transcribing the wisdom of an omniscient being.

I asked myself why another bunch of people living a few thousand miles from you believe - with a conviction equal to your own - in an elephant god, and another bunch of people believe - with just as much justification - that they will die and come back to life as snails, giraffes or lions. That is the level of contradiction that we would expect if all of those ideas had been simply dreamed up with no reference to reality.

You don't look for evidence at all. You can't even look around you and see the most basic evidence in front of your eyes. You treat a disorganised book of rubbish as "evidence", and you look in it only for confirmation of what you want to believe.

[Nihilist Virus]

Question for all theists:

If you're presented with a random story, how do you go about determining whether or not it might be a real story? How would you teach a child to tell the difference?

This is a bit worrying. No reply yet.

It's GC, he's just going to come at you with the "God speaks to me through the story of a talking donkey but Moohamad flying on a magic carpet ride is just ridunkulous" garbage.

[Godscreated]

---

I've never ignored evidence, unlike you I seek it all the time. I seek the truth (proof) in scriptures all the time, you've just never considered such a thing. In your own mind are there contradictions in scriptures. When Christians bring up contradictions in evolution or other sciences the atheist say we will find the truth in the future just give us time, yet you would not consider this viable for Christians to say about the scriptures, now would you.

GC

---

No, I would not consider this viable for Christians to say about scripture. Because your scripture is finished. Your Bible is a finished book and can never change, regardless of what happens in the future. Indeed, one of its final lessons is that it should never be changed: (Revelation 22:18-19)

This speaks to it's perfection, perfection never needs to be changed. As for saying that we could need time to prove certain things would be because some prophecies haven't come to pass and there are a few things not completely understood at this time, and like me most Christians are still learning the scriptures, for those who believe they know all what scriptures say I don't trust them. 

"If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. 19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

This relates only to Revelations, though the Bible should never be changed because it's the word of God and perfect for salvation and a life lived for Christ. religions like the JW's have rewritten the Bible to suit their preconceived notions and others twist the definition of words to fit their preconceived notion, such as the Seventh day Adventist believe the word eternal means as long as something lasts. they do this to reconcile the eternal hell with their notion of a hell that only last for a certain amount of time, go figure.

By contrast, the scientific position is continually open to change. We changed our ideas about phlogiston and calx because it turned out they were wrong. And it led to a better understanding of combustion.
Instead of slavishly adhering to a book that tries to tell us you can create a woman from a man's rib, we actually looked at the human body, and it helped us to stop people bleeding to death during operations.
We used to think that the world was composed of just four elements, and water was one of these, indivisible and absolute. But then chemists succeeded in synthesizing water from two different elements. So we changed our mind.
We tried to make gold from base substances, but when we found out that this was not possible using chemical reactions, we revised our ideas, and in the process we discovered how each element had certain characteristics that predicted the existence of other elements, which we have now found.
We revised our ideas about motion as envisaged by classical mechanics, and it enabled us land a probe on the surface of a comet.

I have no problem with these things you mentioned about science, I believe science is good when people understand it's a learning process and not set in stone to disprove things like the Bible. The Bible in itself is complete, no revisions needed because it's given to us by the omniscient God of creation. God did not ell us how we can create a woman from a rib bone, God said He did this, so no one else can claim they were able to create anything in the way He did. Yes we made a machine and landed it on a comet, however God created the comet from nothing, makes the landing machine look sort of simple.

I don't imagine that this process will eventually bring us round to the idea of a God with suspiciously anthropomorphic features who leaves us only a single book as "evidence" of himself, who arbitrarily murders his devotees with the same apparent relish as he murders unbelievers, and who suffers his priests to rape children for years without bothering to intervene despite assertions that he is omnipotent and omniscient.

Well the only thing I can say here is you know not the God of the Bible or you would know what you said or repeated what you've heard others say, is a lie. god created us for Him to reclaim our lives is His right, no matter what the reason and they are all completely valid if you would learn what the Bible actually teaches. As for those perverted priest they made their own choices and if they think they were justified then I feel sorry for them. You have to remember God doesn't interfere in our free will.

We look at the world around us, we test what we think, and if we are wrong, we change our minds. We don't look to a single set of assertions to justify our opinions. We look at the real world.

The Bible is not about discovering sciences, it's about finding God's salvation through Christ and living as close as we can in a personal relationship with Christ. Atheist seem not to understand this, they seem to despise the life that God has for us, one He has designed for us to help others around us. The Bible was never given to us to justify our opinions, it was give to us to see God's desires for our life with Him.

But you only seek "proof" in scriptures. Why not anywhere else?

I do want proof about everything, but when it comes to God there are things I can't understand and have to take on faith. The one thing I do know about God, He is real, He has proven that to me personally in our relationship.

I have indeed looked for truth in scripture. I looked at the Bible and it tried to tell me that a five hundred year old man could build a boat big enough to hold two of every animal in the world. This is consistent with the Bible being fiction rather than fact.

This is where faith come in, it seems impossible to mortals, however nothing is impossible with the omniscient God. There is no way I can prove Noah was 500 years old nor by the same token can you disprove it. The Ark most likely will never be found and there are realistic reasons for this, Noah and his family needed building materials, they would need wood for fire, they would need to corral the domestic animals and ect.

I asked myself how many five hundred year old men I'd ever met, and the answer was "none". I asked myself what happened to people as they aged, and the answer was "they become physically less strong, much less able to build boats". No one I've ever met over the age of 90 was capable of building a boat. This is consistent with the Bible being fiction rather than fact

Your statement doesn't prove anything close to fiction except your non-belief in God. You can't disprove Noah's age anymore than I can prove it.

I asked myself why the Bible offers no concrete prediction we could test, why it contains no specific fact that would not be common knowledge to a set of scribes living a few thousand years ago. The absence of such concrete, specific, testable predictions is exactly what we would expect if they were simply making it up rather than transcribing the wisdom of an omniscient being.

You've left out somethings very central and important about God and the scriptures, love through faith and freewill. The more we dig into the earth in the middle east, the more is revealed about the Bible on a historical and physical level. No one will ever dig up anything about God without seeking Him through faith, God set it up this way so we could come to love Him, God desires our love, He doesn't need it that's why He set things up the way He has, the design is for our benefit as long as we desire it. God has left many little things to lead us to Him, they are in the Bible. Drich says it all the time seek and ye shall find.

I asked myself why another bunch of people living a few thousand miles from you believe - with a conviction equal to your own - in an elephant god, and another bunch of people believe - with just as much justification - that they will die and come back to life as snails, giraffes or lions. That is the level of contradiction that we would expect if all of those ideas had been simply dreamed up with no reference to reality.

You don't look for evidence at all. You can't even look around you and see the most basic evidence in front of your eyes. You treat a disorganised book of rubbish as "evidence", and you look in it only for confirmation of what you want to believe.

 
This couldn't be farther from the truth, the Bible is my guide to my belief, I form no beliefs that the Bible doesn't teach. God forms my life through the Bible, the Bible is an educational tool God has given those who choose to use it in such a manner. Those who use the Bible to affirm their preconceived notions live a life of little satisfaction, they are in contradiction with it and can't find the true life God has for them, these Christians and nonbelievers live a life far less fulfilling. I see all kinds of evidence that's in front of me, I also see the lies certain men would have me to believe to raise up their own selves, this is the original sin by man.
By the way the Bible is very organized if you would study it you might discover this for yourself.
Thanks for the good conversation.

GC

[Godscreated]

Child prove it's a fairy tale.

GC

Even the Bible says that people shouldn't believe in Jewish religious fairy tales.

Proof please.

GC

[Silver]

I always find it quite entertaining how those who believe in fiction will go to any illogical length to support it. Curse them till they learn to reason properly, Agod.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Even the Bible says that people shouldn't believe in Jewish religious fairy tales.

Proof please.

GC

How about Titus 1:14 = https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Titus%201:14

[Nihilist Virus]

GC: prove it

We prove it.

GC: you don't understand the bible tho