Ends of times prophecy that I can't shake

[Won2blv]

As Jorm pointed out, the prophecies tend to come true within the very same narrative, they're not even talking about the future. They're literary devices, and are often just trying to explain what had already happened at the time of writing into a way that makes the victors sound more respectable. People now try and retrofit events to these "prophecies" regardless, pretending they had something amazing to say. They didn't. It's part of a story taken out of context. It may as well be Harry Potter talking about an evil statue he will face later in the book or something.

This is the rational explanation.

Disclaimer: I am very passionate about this stuff that I go on about in the next paragraph. I am not preaching from a strictly religious platform. These are real problems that I think need to be addressed regardless if I conclude a belief in god.

I don't really understand what part explained what had already happened. As far as the statue, the head of gold represented babylon, and that was the only part that the writing said was contemporary. Even the writer of Daniel at 12:8 said he didn't understand the meaning of his prophecies. I guess this is my question, at what point to cross over from a skeptic to a cynic? Because a skeptic is open minded but a cynic is dead set on dismissing anything they have pre concluded as false. And a lot of what I'm hearing is, you just believe this because of this... But that is fallacious. I would just say that one big reason why all of this stuff still lingers is because of the magnitude of it all more recently. Politics have never been more divisive. I ask every older person I speak to and they say that people use to have difference in political opinion but now its like warring factions. But there is also the natural disasters. Take earthquakes for example, many will say that we only hear of more earthquakes today because of the news and all that. But there was a recent report of the rise of man made earth quakes in America from fracking. Then I look at climate change, every natural disasters is going to be more massive as years go by because of mans contribution to climate change. The ocean is dying, its not just about the fish there is also the phytoplankton that provides as much as 50% of oxygen. Water is drying up. More and more crazy people are getting nukes, or attempting to get them. Humans overuse of antibiotics has made viruses stronger and the antibiotics useless. And that there is more, but the striking thing to me is that this is all put into hyperdrive in the last 100 years. Before that, humans just weren't capable of destroying themselves and natural life so easily. Its the composite picture, not just one thing here or there that correlates.

So this statue thing talking about how the feet will be strong but week because it will be mixed with the common people strikes me. Because looking at the way democracy works today, we're fucking screwed.

[drfuzzy]

Yes.  There are lots of societal and political and ecological issues to address.  So?   You can take just about any end-times fantasy from any book and any religion and claim that it applies.  Have you read Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner?  Written in 1969 - - the tech, the politics, the culture, reads like he actually time-traveled to 2016 and took notes.  Predicted the future with eerie accuracy - better than any vague bible verses.  Should we make Brunner a saint?

[robvalue]

OK...

I'll have to give up, I'm afraid I have no idea what you're talking about.

I hope you find the answers you're looking for somewhere.

[robvalue]

Alright, let's play this one out. It really happened.

God: "You. Ignorant primitive guy who can't possibly know stuff."

Guy: "What?"

God: "The world is going to go to shit in about 2000 years. A statue will be involved."

Guy: "OK. Why are you telling me this?"

God: "So that it proves I exist when people read about it."

Guy: "Uh, OK. So... could you stop it going to shit?"

God: "Of course. I am all powerful. I can do whatever I want."

Guy: "Are you going to stop it?"

God: "Nah."

Guy: "Why not?"

God: "Because I'm fucking mysterious. Just write it down."

Guy: "I can't read or write."

God: "Oh. Well, someone will probably figure out this conversation happened and will write about it in a few hundred years or something."

Guy: "Um, OK. You're really great."

God: "I know right?"

[robvalue]

OK that was a bit of fun.

But seriously, let's say this guy knew something about the future. That's interesting, for sure. But we have no possible way of knowing how he got that information. Until such time that we can investigate this in any way (which may well be never), it's of no practical use or concern. Maybe he was lucky. Maybe he had some technology now lost to us. Maybe a one-time anomaly occured and he magically gained information. There's no possible way to know. Inserting "God told him" is the argument from ignorance, even after pretending this prophecy holds water.

Also, the OP seems to be setting up a false dichotomy where either we admit this is some magic prophecy (which I suspect is what he wants), or else we're denying the state of the world as he is describing it. This excludes the third option, that the world is indeed how he describes it, but that it has nothing to do with the prophecy. We're not belittling the world's problems by refusing to accept retrofitting known facts to ancients texts.

I mean, look at the amount of detail the OP has generated, apparently all from the prophecy. Words and ideas so unbelievably far removed from the actual text. It shows a desire to make the connection at all costs.

Why, I can only guess. Maybe so as to feel that he wasn't totally conned by the religion? I don't mean to be insulting, OP. I'm trying to analyse everything as objectively as I can, to try and help you. If I'm not helping, then I'll keep my analysis to myself.

[Won2blv]

OK that was a bit of fun.

But seriously, let's say this guy knew something about the future. That's interesting, for sure. But we have no possible way of knowing how he got that information. Until such time that we can investigate this in any way (which may well be never), it's of no practical use or concern. Maybe he was lucky. Maybe he had some technology now lost to us. Maybe a one-time anomaly occured and he magically gained information. There's no possible way to know. Inserting "God told him" is the argument from ignorance, even after pretending this prophecy holds water.

Also, the OP seems to be setting up a false dichotomy where either we admit this is some magic prophecy (which I suspect is what he wants), or else we're denying the state of the world as he is describing it. This excludes the third option, that the world is indeed how he describes it, but that it has nothing to do with the prophecy. We're not belittling the world's problems by refusing to accept retrofitting known facts to ancients texts.

I mean, look at the amount of detail the OP has generated, apparently all from the prophecy. Words and ideas so unbelievably far removed from the actual text. It shows a desire to make the connection at all costs.

Why, I can only guess. Maybe so as to feel that he wasn't totally conned by the religion? I don't mean to be insulting, OP. I'm trying to analyse everything as objectively as I can, to try and help you. If I'm not helping, then I'll keep my analysis to myself.

The point of the OP is that whenever I start feeling ok with being an atheist its hard for me to shake off these specific issues. I have never believed really that god has a cosmic movie screen that plays what happens in the future. I think he would be able to predict the same way an economist or a meteorologist predicts. He would use expertise and accurate projections. I have heard a lot of good responses and I do listen. I am just addressing the bad responses. Simply saying, " you poor thing, you were indoctrinated and now you have to justify these irrational things" doesn't work for me. These issues are real no matter what. And it is unprecedented. Maybe crime rates are lower and poverty is going down but the world truly is on the brink of some bad stuff. So yes, if I was raised as an atheist then I would look at these problems purely on a face value. I am currently enrolling in a University to study environmental studies and civil rights because these issues are so important to me. I want to help with them in this life. So I am not going to stand by idly and rationalize my inaction to a god that will eventually intervene. So, please, don't tell me motives for my OP and don't explain how I came to my belief as an invalidation. That is the genetic fallacy. None of the events on the world prove god exists. Its just one of the harder aspects of my faith that I can't shake, as mentioned in my thread title

[robvalue]

Again, I wasn't telling you anything. I was giving my opinion.

Clearly my opinion rubs you up the wrong way so I'll leave you alone.

I'm happy to hear you want to address the problems in the world. I do too. If you find belief in God motivates you to do that, then go for it.

[Won2blv]

Again, I wasn't telling you anything. I was giving my opinion.

Clearly my opinion rubs you up the wrong way so I'll leave you alone.

I'm happy to hear you want to address the problems in the world. I do too. If you find belief in God motivates you to do that, then go for it.

I appreciate your input always. Just sometimes I don't want to hear what I am thinking or why I am thinking. I just want my question addressed. I am pretty much 85% atheist. So I am not making arguments for god. I am just looking for more rational and natural explanations to the things that still linger with me. Thats all

[robvalue]

Alright, let's play this one out. It really happened.

God: "You. Ignorant primitive guy who can't possibly know stuff."

Guy: "What?"

God: "The world is going to go to shit in about 2000 years. A statue will be involved."

Guy: "OK. Why are you telling me this?"

God: "So that it proves I exist when people read about it."

Guy: "Uh, OK. So... could you stop it going to shit?"

God: "Of course. I am all powerful. I can do whatever I want."

Guy: "Are you going to stop it?"

God: "Nah."

Guy: "Why not?"

God: "Because I'm fucking mysterious. Just write it down."

Guy: "I can't read or write."

God: "Oh. Well, someone will probably figure out this conversation happened and will write about it in a few hundred years or something."

Guy: "Um, OK. You're really great."

God: "I know right?"

This is a video reconstruction of the event. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. If you have any information about the people in this video, do not hesitate to send me it to me so I can deal with them most harshly.

http://youtu.be/OGIm0GtWSW8