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Christian answering questions.
RE: Christian answering questions.
You know, I'm still thinking about my earlier comment about the murderers in prison...

We use science (called forensic science) to determine what happened at a crime scene. From DNA tests to footprint analysis to bullet trajectories, and so on and so forth, science gives us highly precise information that forms a good basis for a conviction, if it can be tied to the Accused.

We also use eyewitness testimony to put people away. Christianity relies almost entirely on "eyewitness" testimony (really it's hearsay, since we're pretty damned sure Moses didn't actually write the Pentateuch, none of the authors of the Gospels are the men after whom they are titled, and Paul never actually met Jesus) in order to try to establish its case.

When people are exonerated and released from prison because of the work of scientists who produce evidence that shows they could not have done the crime, in almost literally every case you will find that the person was convicted based upon eyewitness testimony. In almost none of those cases were the eyewitnesses trying to put an innocent man in jail, yet it happens all the time. Eyewitness testimony, when weighed against scientific testing, is next to useless.

But somehow, when it comes to discussions of religion, these people who have wholly swallowed the (secondhand) "eyewitness" testimony that establishes their entire claim will adamantly reject any scientific evidence that proves their claims are inaccurate.

And it never occurs to them that this is a problem. They just go on making up silly shit--either inventing bogus ideas about how science works and what it claims, or producing ad hoc explanations of why their mythologies (like the flood) really happened, even when they don't comport with the most elementary understanding of physics--rather than admit they have "convicted" themselves based on weak evidence.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

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RE: Christian answering questions.
The ad-hoc part is the most comical portion of their arguments.

Take Ken Ham for a perfect example. It's 2016 and he cant build this "ark" without modern steel and cranes. So he says that Noah must have had both, and that the technology must have been lost in the flood and resulting chaos.

It would be comical if it weren't so damned sad.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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RE: Christian answering questions.
(May 6, 2016 at 12:27 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: The ad-hoc part is the most comical portion of their arguments.

Take Ken Ham for a perfect example. It's 2016 and he cant build this "ark" without modern steel and cranes. So he says that Noah must have had both, and that the technology must have been lost in the flood and resulting chaos.

It would be comical if it weren't so damned sad.

Noah had steel in 2348* BCE? That means the guy was a prodigy! He beat the Anatolians, who have the record for the oldest steel known to have been made on this planet, around the year 1800 BCE, by over 500 years! 

Unfortunately, the Anatolians could only produce it in small amounts, so a short-sword or dagger is the best one could expect, and most of what was found were small bits of jewelry. The Hittites (same region) would be the first to "mass produce" steel (true mass production, such as necessary to construct girders of the size we're talking about here, would have to wait until the invention of the Bessemer process in the mid-1800s CE) in useful quantities, but that was not until just before 1000 BCE, around the time the Bible claims Saul was becoming Israel's first king.

[*This is the date claimed by Answers in Genesis to be the year of the flood.]
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

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RE: Christian answering questions.
(May 6, 2016 at 12:27 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: The ad-hoc part is the most comical portion of their arguments.

Take Ken Ham for a perfect example. It's 2016 and he cant build this "ark" without modern steel and cranes. So he says that Noah must have had both, and that the technology must have been lost in the flood and resulting chaos.

It would be comical if it weren't so damned sad.

It's even sadder than that. Ham has said

Quote:Besides the fact that we don’t know what tools Noah had, we point out that many people wittingly or unwittingly have an evolutionary view (or evolutionary-influenced view) of history. Many think Noah must have been some primitive person maybe using primitive stone tools. When God made man, man was obviously highly intelligent. Genesis 4:21 tell us that within a few generations people were making musical instruments. By the time of Noah, and with people living for hundreds of years before the Flood, who knows what sort of knowledge was accumulated and the kind of sophisticated technology that was developed? Noah may have had tools and other impressive technology that we would be jealous of! And remember, we don’t know how ancient people built many of the stone structures in South America or even the remarkably constructed Egyptian pyramids. The ancients obviously had a technology we just aren’t aware of, as it seems no record was kept or the records were destroyed. In this area of ancient technologies, we need to think in terms of a Christian worldview based on the history in the Bible.

[...]

The Bible does not tell us whether Noah did or did not use cranes. From a Christian worldview, ancient people, including those living before the Flood, would have been highly intelligent, and no doubt would have understood about remedial things like leverage. Noah may have had ingeniously designed cranes that would make us stand in awe today!

[...]

But where in the Bible does it say Noah didn’t use metal? In fact, in Genesis 4:22, just a few generations after Adam, we read, “And as for Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron.” So if they were using bronze and iron then, by the time of Noah people may have developed all sorts of sophisticated uses of metals. Noah may have used more metal than we do!

The bible also doesn't say that Noah didn't whip out his dick, wave it around like a magic wand and zap the ark into existence, so therefore he could have done, which proves that he did.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Christian answering questions.
"From a Christian worldview" I can make up whatever the fuck I want and assert it as fact because the Bible left it out. Must be nice to do "science" that way.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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RE: Christian answering questions.
Oh!... so... From a christian point of view, Noah had use of the Force and light sabers... (doesn't say he didn't in the babble, so he must have)
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RE: Christian answering questions.
I like the Hittites. They're in AoE.

Hammy
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Christian answering questions.
So essentially he thinks that in 9 generations from Adam to Noah in 1000 years we progressed from not understanding the difference between right and wrong, not knowing what he can or cannot eat and basically wandering about like an aimless naked fucking muppet to developing super sized metallic lifting machines.

He's a proper knob that Ken Ham.
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RE: Christian answering questions.
(May 5, 2016 at 3:10 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:
(May 5, 2016 at 2:20 pm)Godschild Wrote:










 I'm only going to address the flood here, you can't possibly know how the world wide flood effected the earth, this flood as the Bible describes it was from below and above, tearing the earth apart and then rearranging it. No amount of theory or speculation could possibly come close to discounting it. There's one thing for sure this flood can not be recreated in a lab or nature so it can't be observed again and the ones who lived through it are gone so we can't ask them. So I will believe what I will because God has proven himself to me and I know I can believe God, you trust in what man says and does and your story shows how trustworthy man is.

GC

AND this is what you get when you don't science.  It's obvious that the flood, as described in the wholly babble, never existed.  It has been disproved by archaeologists, geologists, biologists, physicists, historians, the many cultures that existed during the time claimed but gee, never got wet, and pure common sense.  Here is a collection of reasons, some from the rationalwiki link at the top - not that you'll read it, you're too terrified that your gawd will fry you if you even think for a minute that the story is just an allegory.  


[Image: 1b87bd71ee9ebc65508c9f372a1fd145.jpg]
 
 I've read all that before and no real proof against the flood is produced as the Bible describes the flood. As for the fish many, many fish have no problem living in fresh and salt water, and we know that salt water and fresh water do not always have to mix when brought together, the Amazon is just one example. The amount of fresh water mixing in with the salt water would have formed many very large areas of brackish water where even more kinds of fish could live with no problems, as they do today. 

Yes I read some of the article until I saw that it's a repeat of what I've read before, don't think I haven't studied these things. The whole deal is no one today was there at the time and can't know what all happened or was possible. The flood can't be reproduced and so what scientist try to prove by paper work doesn't always result in reality, many papers that have been published have later been found to be untrue. Why would I take the writer of the article seriously when he shows no respect for Christians and the same goes for you.
 
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Christian answering questions.
(May 6, 2016 at 12:27 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: The ad-hoc part is the most comical portion of their arguments.

Take Ken Ham for a perfect example. It's 2016 and he cant build this "ark" without modern steel and cranes. So he says that Noah must have had both, and that the technology must have been lost in the flood and resulting chaos.

It would be comical if it weren't so damned sad.

 We couldn't build the pyramids without them, we know the Egyptians didn't have them, yet they built them, so what does that say about modern man. Noah didn't have them, he had over 100 years to build the ark. Both the Egyptians and Noah had knowledge we don't is obvious.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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