EU: Should the UK Leave or Stay?

[ReptilianPeon]

Undecided but leaning towards leave. The European Union has bullied Greece and imposed free trade deals on Third World countries. I feel like the EU is a stick Germany uses to beat the rest of Europe with: They finally realized that they can't win militarily. EU is full of unelected officials an an European Parliament has very little power. And the deal with Turkey on the migrants is terrible.

[robvalue]

Is it too cynical to assume David Cameron already has "the result" and the vote is a sham?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I think the UK should leave, and I think they eventually will - if not now, then later. Britons were never whole-heatedly in the EU to begin with and - as abaris mentioned - they cherry-picked the conditions under which they would join. Sort of like the oddball uncle who says he'll come to your wedding IF he can dance with the bridesmaids and IF he gets a corner piece of the cake and IF he doesn't have to bring a gift and IF - etc.

On the Scotland issue, Scots are the most Euro-friendly group in the UK and if the vote is to leave, Scots will push yet again to leave the UK. It might have worked when oil prices were sky-high (the premise on which the economic argument for leaving was based), but this time round it would be a disaster.

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Is it too cynical to assume David Cameron already has "the result" and the vote is a sham?

Umm - how can he have 'the result' when the vote hasn't happened yet?

Boru

[robvalue]

Like this:

"Ooh it was close! But it's 57% stay 43% leave. But I really would have left if you'd have wanted me too! Honest guy."

Cuts down on paperwork too. He might even pre-record the announcement in case he's ill that day.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yeah, that's pretty cynical. I'm not sure Cameron - duplicitous twat that he is - could pull that off in a public referendum.

Boru

[robvalue]

Well, I don't know. He fooled everyone into thinking he's a salt of the earth every day hard working man by rolling his sleeves up.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Regardless of what you think about the EU and its failings, the motivations for the people funding the leave campaign are not in our interests. They want to remove the working time directive and a whole slew of other rights to maximise profit.

And then of course there is the very likely possibility of Scotland having another referendum to leave the UK. It's one thing voting to stay in the UK when you're partially protected by the EU from the excesses of Westminster, but quite another when you've already been recently lied to and there's a Tory government in power who knows that there is no hope in chance to getting your vote so prioritises the voters down south.

[abaris]

Regardless of what you think about the EU and its failings, the motivations for the people funding the leave campaign are not in our interests.

What one has to keep in mind that the EU is the sum of it's national politicians. It's not some nameless, faceless body as the politicians bickering to their own national electorate make it appear.

[pocaracas]

Not from the UK, but doing some work in the UK... I can say that brexit would probably make me go to the UK a bit less.

But let's look at it from a more distant POV... Why would the politicians, people elected by the people to make the informed political decisions, why would they pass on this decision to the largely ignorant people? This, I think, is the most important thing to answer.

The people will vote according to their feelings and with whomever they identify in the campaign...
It is known that many nationals, from any country in the EU, don't care much for the EU. Lots of rules and regulations coming from there, just to screw over our lives. Cash must flow to that EU commission, and EU parliament and a bunch of other EU-related institutions - I know of Euratom and Fusion For Energy... and I know there are quite a few perks for working in those... imagine how many more there are...
Tons of emotionally charged "reasons" to leave the EU... "reasons" that would be (and probably have been) drilled into the masses....

But is it really an overall loss to be in such a community?
Thinking in terms of the global village, does it make sense to split back up into tiny countries... or to bond as one coordinated unit, while retaining the regional cultures? Think global warming, scientific research... think global...