EU: Should the UK Leave or Stay?

[I_am_not_mafia]

And some BNP have become UKIP.

Peoples views changing? Oh the horror!

Are they changing?

[account_inactive]

Peoples views changing? Oh the horror!

Are they changing?

I'd say probably toning down their views a bit, yeah. Like all parties, there are extreme elements but they don't control the party; merely members.

TL;DR BNP members may have joined UKIP, but UKIP aren't even comparable to the BNP.

[robvalue]

http://youtu.be/QwrdDs0nmyg

[I_am_not_mafia]

I certainly don't think that all UKIP supporters are BNP supporters. I believe in self determination and having a say in how you are governed. I support Scottish independence after all. I'm more sceptical about the motivations of those funding UKIP.

For me the biggest enemy is the British establishment. Because the country has not been conquered since feudal times, we've only been given enough power in order to stop a revolution. This is why the country is so obsessed by class. Because the establishment looks after its own while feeding off everyone else. I actually see UKIP as part of the problem, not part of the solution. For me the EU waters down the damage that can be done by Westminster.

[Pat Mustard]

No, not exactly but I do see it as a safeguard against rash and fickle decision-making about policy, stopping the likes of the BNP and UKIP from getting their (right wing) way over issues that happen to grab the public imagination for a short time. Basically I see public opinion here as very volatile, and I think having a kind of 'federal' law stops us acting in the heat of the moment without thinking things through and stops right wing parties getting a foothold.

If we were out of it and they replaced the Human Rights Act with the proposed Bill of Rights what's the catch? It's presumably to remove something from it and if that's the case, what's to stop it happening again... and again... digging away at it little by little... till it barely resembles a list of rights at all? All at the whim of the current leadership and the current popular mood whoever and whatever they may be.

Oh great. Let's lump UKIP and the BNP together. I thought that one had gone out of fashion since the last election but evidently I'm wrong. There really are still people out there who do this. Makes it hard to take anything else you say seriously.

One is a party run by racists, the other is run by an attention whore who thinks the best "look at me" strategy is to adopt similar platforms to the first party except to tone down the overt racism.

[emjay]

http://youtu.be/QwrdDs0nmyg

"... the BBC tried to make him look stupid by like, letting him speak..."

"...he's just the voice of the average <BEEP>"

[Napoléon]

UKIP are not the BNP, no -- but they're still damn awful.

In your opinion. What shouldn't be up for debate is lumping them in the same category as an overtly racist and fascist political party.

Let's not play dumb, the insinuation is that people who want to leave the EU are as bad as people in these parties who are racist and bigoted. That's the only reason the BNP has been brought up here.

This is demonstrably not true and is flat out fucking insulting.

Whether someone supports UKIP, the BNP or the Monster Raving Loony party, the reasons to leave the EU are not invalidated by anyone else's notions that these parties may or may not be bags of shit.

Funnily enough, you can agree with a point of view held by a person and it doesn't mean you agree with everything else they say. Same goes for political parties.

[emjay]

Napo, I think I know you well enough to know you're not like the BNP... you're open minded and certainly not homophobic, and I respect you.

[Edwardo Piet]

UKIP are not the BNP, no -- but they're still damn awful.

In your opinion.

Of course. And in your opinion they're not. Saying "in your opinion" is pointless.

What shouldn't be up for debate is lumping them in the same category as an overtly racist and fascist political party.

Like I said, they're not the BNP, I still think they're damn awful. In my opinion. You don't think they are.

Let's not play dumb, the insinuation is that people who want to leave the EU are as bad as people in these parties who are racist and bigoted. That's the only reason the BNP has been brought up here.

The similarity for me, is that nowadays even unintelligent racists seem to not take the BNP seriously anymore. However, pretty much all the racists I have spoken to in the last few years support UKIP.

In my own personal experience, not all UKIP supporters are racist, but pretty much all the politically active racists I have spoken to are UKIP supporters.

Whether someone supports UKIP, the BNP or the Monster Raving Loony party, the reasons to leave the EU are not invalidated by anyone else's notions that these parties may or may not be bags of shit.

True. I said I don't think we should leave the EU and gave my reasons for that. I also said that I hate UKIP. I didn't say that reasons to leave the EU are invalidated by my hatred of UKIP or BNP or any other party.

Funnily enough, you can agree with a point of view held by a person and it doesn't mean you agree with everything else they say. Same goes for political parties.

Yes I agree but it's not "funnily enough" at all, I'm not an idiot, I'm not playing dumb and I didn't say any of the things that you're saying I said. You can say all you want what you think is being insinuated, it doesn't make it true.

[Thumpalumpacus]

To be fair, the insinuation seemed clear to this uninvolved reader. The same thing is done here in American politics as well -- guilt by association.