Heaven seems awful 2 me-"Theist laughs at loudly & with great cruelty"

[dyresand]

The Southern Baptists = the church for the slave owners.  If there's a lake of fire they need to be tossed into it for eternity.

 
 You're about stupid you know that, why can't atheist let go of something that happened 150 years ago. You do know atheist are responsible for the present sex slave trade don't you. 

GC

REALLY?! REALLY?! NOW?! Atheists are the most humanist people who actually give a fuck about others!
The fucking vatican harbors pedophiles and protects them. Even churches here in the US have that same issue
as well claiming to help pedophiles and cure them only to hide the fact they touch kids. Even other fucking religions
do that type of bullshit of sex slaves so don't you dare blame atheists fucking asshole.

[Godscreated]

 The Holy Spirit shows Christians the truth of scripture, is it through the brain, maybe. It is through a Christians desire to learn about the God we worship and love. Is it through the spirit God places in each person, probably.

GC

You didn't actually answer any of my questions except to say you don't know, and I love that you have no clue or guess or any type of insight at all to something that communicates with you.

I gave an answer that I hoped might satisfy you, since it did not the answer is through the spirit God puts into all of us.

GC

[rexbeccarox]

The Southern Baptists = the church for the slave owners.  If there's a lake of fire they need to be tossed into it for eternity.

 
 You're about stupid you know that, why can't atheist let go of something that happened 150 years ago. You do know atheist are responsible for the present sex slave trade don't you. 

GC

Huhwhat?????

[Godscreated]

Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent. Who Christ is, the Trinity and who the Father is. Just for starters.

GC

GC

Unconvincing. Are you saying that if you became a believer in some sort of cultural vacuum, armed with nothing but a Bible, that the "Holy Spirit" would have been necessary for you to infer God's alleged characteristics, the Trinity, etc., or are those doctrines implicit in the text and available to be teased out by a careful reading?

I didn't give the answer to convince you, I knew you wouldn't accept it, I gave you the truth about myself not others. The words Trinity, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent are not in the Bible but they are who God is, do you even know how what they mean concerning God?

As it is, you didn't become a Christian in a cultural vacuum. Each of the beliefs you listed have been a part of normative Christian belief for centuries. You inherited these doctrines, and I don't believe for a moment that you arrived at them 'independently' with the help of the so-called Holy Spirit. Normative Christian doctrine is the lens through which you read the Bible, and your predisposition to accept it all as true is what provides you the certainty that you believe correctly. No immaterial spook required.

 I did not say I came by them independently, you are reading your ideas into my answers, you asked what the Holy Spirit helped me with and I told you just a few things, when I became a Christian I don't remember whether or not I knew about any of the omnis. You really believe you know what I do, you think you know my experiences, wrong. Yes most go into Bible study with some predispositions because we trust those who lead us but, my pastor always told us if we have doubts about what he was teaching to go to the Bible and check out the teaching, meaning trust the Holy Spirit's guidance. He like myself knows that we can make mistakes. Christians aren't perfect and never will be, we are Christians though having a relationship with Christ.

GC

[Godscreated]

 It boils down to one thing, a persons willingness to accept what the Holy Spirit teaches without laying heavily on preconceived notions. Those who have wrong ideas and reject the teaching of the Holy Spirit is the reason there are so many denominations, that and people following wrong teachers. Like I've said before I'm Southern Baptist but I do not hold to all the teachings of the church, are they right or am I or maybe neither, but I'm still Southern Baptist because I believe the Southern Baptist are closer to the truth than any other denomination.

GC

So - you're saying essentially the same thing that I said.  You're saying that that other guys are wrong.  They claim to be led by the Holy Spirit too, but either the Spirit's message is being blocked or warped, by their own preconceived notions or wrong teachers.  My point is if the Holy Spirit was capable of sending a clear and concise message, there would be no blockage, and no wrong teachers.   Everyone who was being led by the Holy Spirit would be in total agreement - no matter which church, which version of the Bible, which culture or language.

 You have a very limited understanding of human nature, some people just want it their way no matter what. I on the other hand prefer to know God's truth been that way since I was very young, not necessarily about God at that time of my life, but about everything. 
 What you posted seems quite .... well I'm not sure, but when the Holy Spirit spoke to you you rejected Him didn't you, so why are you criticizing others.

GC

[Redbeard The Pink]

So - you're saying essentially the same thing that I said.  You're saying that that other guys are wrong.  They claim to be led by the Holy Spirit too, but either the Spirit's message is being blocked or warped, by their own preconceived notions or wrong teachers.  My point is if the Holy Spirit was capable of sending a clear and concise message, there would be no blockage, and no wrong teachers.   Everyone who was being led by the Holy Spirit would be in total agreement - no matter which church, which version of the Bible, which culture or language.

 You have a very limited understanding of human nature, some people just want it their way no matter what. I on the other hand prefer to know God's truth been that way since I was very young, not necessarily about God at that time of my life, but about everything. 
 What you posted seems quite .... well I'm not sure, but when the Holy Spirit spoke to you you rejected Him didn't you, so why are you criticizing others.

GC

Until you have some demonstrable way of showing that a person is or isn't following the Holy Spirit's guidance, you can't use that as an indicator of whether a person is a True Christian™. Otherwise this is still just the No True Scotsman fallacy, and you're still a cad for insisting on it.

[robvalue]

The Southern Baptists = the church for the slave owners.  If there's a lake of fire they need to be tossed into it for eternity.

 
 You're about stupid you know that, why can't atheist let go of something that happened 150 years ago. You do know atheist are responsible for the present sex slave trade don't you. 

GC

...

How do you even reply to something like this?

And I mean, yeah. Anything that happened 150 or more years ago is completely irrelevant, I agree. Let's all stop referencing such things. So long, Jesus!

[Godscreated]

 By the statements you made you must have been reading something besides the Bible, your statements do not reflect what the scriptures say about heaven, so it was correct for me to point out your lack of biblical understanding.

GC

Not really, I never said I was referring just to the bible only, did I, I was referring to the religion as a whole, Christianity. Assuming that salvation is necessary, and assuming that you have lived in a way to merit salvation, and/or assuming that anyone at all is saved, the final question becomes: saved for what? Just what is it that all those happily "saved" people are supposed to get, anyway?

There is no other place to learn the truth of heaven except the Bible, mistake one. Salvation is necessary for one to be in heaven basic biblical teaching, mistake two. Works can't save you, basic biblical teaching, mistake three. Saved for God himself, basic biblical teaching. We the saved will receive a life in eternity, to live a life with no pain, no health problems, no sadness, no hunger, perfectly made by God for his kingdom to serve Him and learn about Him, living in mansions that nothing on earth can rival. These are the basics taught in scripture, there is much more most we can't even imagine the goodness of.

The standard response is that saved people go to heaven. Just what "heaven" entails is always very murky. At one time, people seemed to think that saved souls would float around on clouds playing harps. Today, anyone asked this question will offer the more evasive "live in the presence of God" - as if that really explained anything.

Because this is supposed to be the ultimate goal, it's worth asking for more details. Just what is it we're supposed to be working for? What is it that I'm supposed to reshape my life for? The Bible offers some indications of what heaven is like, but predictably, most people trying to sell you on the idea of heaven don't want to be reminded of those passages. For the most part, they don't depict anything all that grand.

Another mistake, they're beginning to pile up, are you trying for a record. There is no goal in Christianity, we are to live a life holy as God is holy. Salvation is a free gift from God, unearned, given to those who believe and will accept the gift. Heaven is beginning a new life in eternity, new things will abound for those who accept the gift of salvation. There will be life to explore just as we explore this life except the new one for Christians will never end, we will be experiencing new things forever more.

Wars in Heaven

Dennis McKinsey quotes 7 verses and a parable describing heaven in some fashion; unfortunately, some of the qualities described are downright awful.

And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
Rev. 12:7

And the armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
Rev. 19:14

Admittedly, these two passages seem to take place at The End and don't presume to describe the normal conditions in heaven. However, the fact of the matter is heaven is usually depicted as being a perfect place to be - yet if that is the case, how can it experience a war?

Because even the angels have free choice, even though it like ours is under God's providence. The war is a spiritual one, in which God will put an end to the evil He allowed to exist for a time, to be in accord with His eternal plan. With the mistakes you are making with the simple things Revelations is no place for you at this time, you need to learn the basics first. God only wants those who will love Him for who He is, the unseen God, eternal, full of perfect love and the greatest of gift givers, holy and righteous, unchangeable, just to name a few things quickly.

Violence in Heaven

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matt. 11:12

Here, we see that the "kingdom of heaven" can suffer violence. Is the "kingdom of heaven" the same as heaven? There is no reason to think otherwise - causing us to wonder why we should want to strive to reach a place where the "violent" can take over.

 
You need to understand that Jesus was talking about a short time here, but of coarse you can't even see this because you are letting someone else speak for you. Jesus is speaking of the violence to come on John from Herod and from the men of the law against Him. Satan can't even go before God without His permission so how do you think the most powerful being outside of heaven could possibly be able to take violence to heaven. Jesus here is referring to himself as the kingdom of heaven as He did several times. He may also be referring to the church.

Class & Status in Heaven

The above passage from Matthew is in reference to John the Baptist, and is immediately preceded by the following description of him:

Truly I tell you, among those born of women no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matt. 11:11

Clearly, the "kingdom of heaven" has levels of status: some are least while others are first. Although God can create any sort of class system it wants, does that really describe your idea of a "perfect" existence?

You'll have to excuse me I laughed at this one, why, because I know where you are getting these things, they're not original to you and most are ridiculous, or should I say an atheists point of view on Christianity. Jesus is saying that anyone who is in heaven will be above a mere mortal on earth, Jesus is comparing one who is in heaven to one who is on earth. However other verses do show different levels in heaven and yes everyone there will be satisfied because they will see and accept why they are at certain levels, jealousy will not exist in heaven.

Heaven is Not Eternal

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Matt 24:34-35

Heaven will eventually pass away? Well, so much for the claim that heaven is a state of eternal bliss or eternal communion with God. Heaven may last a really, really long time, but according to Jesus, it is temporary like the earth is temporary.
All in all, McKinsey cites some interesting passages which do not in any way support the general impression among Christians that heaven is a great place to go. So what is the basis for the idea that heaven is really a place worth striving for? That's something worth asking the next evangelist who accosts you. If they cannot find any biblical basis for a wonderful heaven, be sure to question where the more commonly-held conception of heaven comes from, because conservative evangelicals are opposed to "adding" anything to the biblical text.

Now you're just being ridiculous or you're just plain ignorant, you decide. The heaven in this verse is speaking of the universe, how can you and McKinsey be so blind, kids know what this passage means, you and anyone who believes what he writes are extremely illogical.
As for heaven being eternal it's not only God is eternal, heaven will last for eternity.

Hey according to some theists who want to split away from their fundamentalists counterparts who say don't take the bible literally, take it metaphorically and get what you can get from it. I thought it was ones interpretation/perception of the bible is what theist say is their religion.. well that is my interpretation. And I can say without a doubt my perception/interpretation is the more correct one, it seems to me, be it taking a critical analytical view of it or and being less biased than say a Christian.

 You know nothing about the Bible, I doubt you know anything about any one verse. You copy others false and illogical ideas and try and pass them off as your interpretation, sonny you have a lot to learn about life and people, those you look up to are doing their best to take as many to hell with them as they can, they don't want to be alone there. Every time you accept the lies of a non-believer( I don't have the verse before me) you are making their hell worse for them and every time you cause someone to believe the lie you are condemning yourself to a worse hell. As for science much of it is good and I like it, but the way you want to use it.... well it doesn't disprove God in the least. Science is about the physical not the spiritual. 

GC

[Godscreated]

 You have a very limited understanding of human nature, some people just want it their way no matter what. I on the other hand prefer to know God's truth been that way since I was very young, not necessarily about God at that time of my life, but about everything. 
 What you posted seems quite .... well I'm not sure, but when the Holy Spirit spoke to you you rejected Him didn't you, so why are you criticizing others.

GC

Until you have some demonstrable way of showing that a person is or isn't following the Holy Spirit's guidance, you can't use that as an indicator of whether a person is a True Christian™. Otherwise this is still just the No True Scotsman fallacy, and you're still a cad for insisting on it.

 I didn't say they weren't Christians, you did and are trying to make it seem as I did, so take your NTS and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine.

GC

[Godscreated]

 
 You're about stupid you know that, why can't atheist let go of something that happened 150 years ago. You do know atheist are responsible for the present sex slave trade don't you. 

GC

Huhwhat?????

I didn't expect you to understand, same dense mind as usual.

GC