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RE: Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.
May 25, 2016 at 10:15 pm
(May 25, 2016 at 4:14 am)Constable Dorfl Wrote:
(May 24, 2016 at 6:05 am)Thena323 Wrote:
Bit of a random musing, actually; You know what I've never really heard? A theist/apologist teaching that God doesn't answer some folks because he hates them. Or rather, knows they wouldn't make a good fit, so to speak.
That would be a perfectly "plausible" explanation as to why some people never hear back from Him, next to Him just not being there, of course.
At least as likely as "not believing right", it would seem.
Though, I can certainly understand why you all would think that would be no good could come of telling telling some folks that they will never be 'called'.
If your God already knows who won't make the cut, that would make A/S/King an exercise in futility for some, wouldn't it?
Heh heh...If people have A/S/Ked and received radio silence, may they should just take the hint.
I thought that was the whole point of calvinism, "god hates the rest of yiz, but he loves me and my homies. No matter how depraved we get (and we go pretty low) we gets to heaven, no matter how good yiz are ye gets hell."
Calvinism, yes.
I would say not really, as far as own my take use to go, though. As a theist, I spent most of my churchgoing years attending Pentecostal services, but I was always left with the impression that atonement was likely limited to some degree from my own personal study/interpretation. I'd always believed that one could reject the call to salvation, though. And lose it, as well.
None of it makes any sense to me these days, anyhow; I can't make heads or tails of it anymore.
RE: Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.
May 27, 2016 at 9:13 am
(May 24, 2016 at 4:26 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(May 24, 2016 at 2:42 pm)Drich Wrote: Funny that you mention that.. One of my business has me own a independent car dealership. (We do sell used cars but most of what we sell are new.)
That said sincerity is the quality i believe you think is thinning. I can assure you that I believe and stake my own eternal existence on what I have shared. I'm all in here penny and pound.
No, I mean you literally sound like a used car salesman.
(May 24, 2016 at 2:42 pm)Drich Wrote: ....I have made no bones about my lack of understanding and education. That however makes no difference in my usefulness to God. Before I came here I spent 5 years debating and studying under men like you have describes and over time I found that they (like you) rely on a 'traditional understanding, and their educations in that tradition to validate what they believe. To them, and to you I ask, if your prize of knowledge is based on tradition, then what separates you from the Pharisees and Sadducee that Christ had such contempt for??
This is quite the leap you're making here. I don't know much about Pharisees and Sadduccees and Jesus attitude toward them, but I doubt it was based on a contempt for people who practice good scholarship.
Actually to see What Jesus thought of the religious leaders is to just turn to mat 23 There is a whole chapter dedicated to Jesus point out what He thought of the religious leadership, and it wasn't good.
And this contempt was in part based on what the Leadership would indeed identify as 'Good scholarship' as they were just following the traditional teachings and methods of those who came before, while adding what they saw as a logical extensions to the law.
Quote: Re: where did Nod come from, etc.? Again, you're asking that it all make sense and is consistent. These are ancient myths you're dealing with Drich. A lot of times they just didn't make sense (not speaking of the bible in particular, but myth in general). Your problem is you require it all to make sense and be consistent. And it leads you to postulates such as your monkey man which really have no foundation in the bible other than in your overly literal and poorly informed exegesis.
They are only considered 'myths' because they do not make sense or they contradict what is known/believed. But, here's the thing jorgie, By doing nothing more than reading Genesis 1 and 2 and dropping the traditional nonsense I have reconciled the creation account found in Genesis 1&2 with the narrative the world has adopted, AND it also allows us to answer the paradoxical questions that arise with in the traditional reading of this passage, without having to add anything to or take anything away from what is written.
And again it is my "poorly informed exegesis" that makes me a candidate for God's wisdom to be poured in the Exegesis as I do freely admit that I approach the bible with a child's understanding. Yet can pull from it an explanation neither you nor any of the 'well informed exegetical contemporaries' who have tried to discard what I've been shown here can address, without attacking me rather than dismantle the content.
RE: Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.
May 27, 2016 at 9:18 am
(May 25, 2016 at 10:15 pm)Thena323 Wrote:
(May 25, 2016 at 4:14 am)Constable Dorfl Wrote: I thought that was the whole point of calvinism, "god hates the rest of yiz, but he loves me and my homies. No matter how depraved we get (and we go pretty low) we gets to heaven, no matter how good yiz are ye gets hell."
Calvinism, yes.
I would say not really, as far as own my take use to go, though. As a theist, I spent most of my churchgoing years attending Pentecostal services, but I was always left with the impression that atonement was likely limited to some degree from my own personal study/interpretation. I'd always believed that one could reject the call to salvation, though. And lose it, as well.
None of it makes any sense to me these days, anyhow; I can't make heads or tails of it anymore.
That is where I differ from calvinism as well in that one can indeed reject the call to salvation.
That said i do not believe we can loose our salvation. However I do not believe we are 'saved' at the moment we typically think. Saved as outlined in scripture always points to a comming event. "you will be saved.." ect. I believe salvation comes at the verdict of your judgement. Once you are saved (from judgement onward) you can never loose your salvation.
RE: Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.
May 27, 2016 at 11:31 am
(May 27, 2016 at 10:16 am)quip Wrote:
(May 27, 2016 at 9:15 am)Drich Wrote: Then Joy.. Replace the word Happy with Joy.
What's the practical difference?
As you pointed out and I responded.
Happiness is transient, While Joy is not. Joy is not self generated or dependant on circumstance. Joy is a perpetual sense of happiness despite circumstance.
RE: Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.
May 27, 2016 at 11:34 am
(May 27, 2016 at 11:31 am)Drich Wrote:
(May 27, 2016 at 10:16 am)quip Wrote: What's the practical difference?
As you pointed out and I responded.
Happiness is transient, While Joy is not. Joy is not self generated or dependant on circumstance. Joy is a perpetual sense of happiness despite circumstance.
RE: Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.
May 27, 2016 at 12:47 pm
(May 27, 2016 at 11:34 am)quip Wrote:
(May 27, 2016 at 11:31 am)Drich Wrote: As you pointed out and I responded.
Happiness is transient, While Joy is not. Joy is not self generated or dependant on circumstance. Joy is a perpetual sense of happiness despite circumstance.
Same package, different wrapping.
Same type of experience, different source.
It's the difference between a battery powered device and a solar powered one.
RE: Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.
May 27, 2016 at 12:54 pm
(May 27, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Drich Wrote:
(May 27, 2016 at 11:34 am)quip Wrote: Same package, different wrapping.
Same type of experience, different source.
It's the difference between a battery powered device and a solar powered one.
All emotional states are dependent upon circumstance.
One can't have perpetual joy without necessary, interceding sorrow...sorrow is what gives joy its flavor, they're both necessarily integrative and transient.
RE: Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.
May 28, 2016 at 6:45 am (This post was last modified: May 28, 2016 at 6:48 am by Athene.)
(May 27, 2016 at 9:18 am)Drich Wrote:
(May 25, 2016 at 10:15 pm)Thena323 Wrote:
Calvinism, yes.
I would say not really, as far as own my take use to go, though. As a theist, I spent most of my churchgoing years attending Pentecostal services, but I was always left with the impression that atonement was likely limited to some degree from my own personal study/interpretation. I'd always believed that one could reject the call to salvation, though. And lose it, as well.
None of it makes any sense to me these days, anyhow; I can't make heads or tails of it anymore.
That is where I differ from calvinism as well in that one can indeed reject the call to salvation.
That said i do not believe we can loose our salvation. However I do not believe we are 'saved' at the moment we typically think. Saved as outlined in scripture always points to a comming event. "you will be saved.." ect.
Yep: Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Quote: I believe salvation comes at the verdict of your judgement. Once you are saved (from judgement onward) you can never loose your salvation.
Romans 10:10 (KJV) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Salvation is only the means by which one is saved, IMO; Easily lost or forfeited.
That was my take, anyway.
