I Have Proof the the Christian God Does Not and Cannot Eist

[ignoramus]

Don't forget mh, god may be a slug? The jury is still out pending more evidence.

[Kingpin]

This a.m. I was thinking about how some theists and agnostics challenge atheists to prove that god does not exist. Many, myself included, content ourselves with the knowledge that the burden of proof is on the positive statement. But I was thinking about it further and hit upon the obvious proof that god, as the bible and the Church presents him, does not exist and cannot exist.

How? I’ve never been off this continent, much less in every place in the universe. So how do I know that god does not exist in a place I’ve never been?

Simple.

God, we are told, is omnipresent. But if there’s a place where god does not exist, then he is not omnipresent. I don’t have to go everywhere in the universe. All I have to do is find one place where god does not exist to prove that an omnipresent god does not exist anywhere.

1. You are presupposing omnipresence to be factual.
2. By your test you did not prove God does not/cannot exist, only that "God" is not physically omnipresent.
3. I agree with Minimalist actually. I always wonder why some of those who do not believe work so hard to convince others of their unbelief.

[robvalue]

I find it astonishing that some Christians say God is everywhere, and some say he's nowhere (outside of space). Weird huh.

Wherever he is, I want to know how to tell the difference between him and nothing. If he's right here next to me, he may as well not be.

[Kingpin]

I find it astonishing that some Christians say God is everywhere, and some say he's nowhere (outside of space). Weird huh.

Wherever he is, I want to know how to tell the difference between him and nothing. If he's right here next to me, he may as well not be.

Not exactly weird IMO.  After all we are just humans and our "knowledge" is limited by our subjective understanding and discernment.  Believers are no different than anyone else so I'm never surprised to hear diverse thoughts on God.  There are some very basic tenets of agreement, but when delving in to deeper, more complex details, it's impossible to know for sure.  Some may still say with certainty they are right and attempt to back it up, but it's really conjecture.

[FatAndFaithless]

I find it astonishing that some Christians say God is everywhere, and some say he's nowhere (outside of space). Weird huh.

Wherever he is, I want to know how to tell the difference between him and nothing. If he's right here next to me, he may as well not be.

Not exactly weird IMO.  After all we are just humans and our "knowledge" is limited by our subjective understanding and discernment.  Believers are no different than anyone else so I'm never surprised to hear diverse thoughts on God.  There are some very basic tenets of agreement, but when delving in to deeper, more complex details, it's impossible to know for sure.  Some may still say with certainty they are right and attempt to back it up, but it's really conjecture.

That makes me curious.  How do you agree on what is a "basic tenet" and what is conjecture?  Because Christians have disagreed over..just about every point of doctrine (including whether or not Jesus was all human or all god or both), all the time claiming they had the truth.  You have to understand that from our point of view, everything that you claim is conjecture.

[Kingpin]

Not exactly weird IMO.  After all we are just humans and our "knowledge" is limited by our subjective understanding and discernment.  Believers are no different than anyone else so I'm never surprised to hear diverse thoughts on God.  There are some very basic tenets of agreement, but when delving in to deeper, more complex details, it's impossible to know for sure.  Some may still say with certainty they are right and attempt to back it up, but it's really conjecture.

That makes me curious.  How do you agree on what is a "basic tenet" and what is conjecture?  Because Christians have disagreed over..just about every point of doctrine (including whether or not Jesus was all human or all god or both), all the time claiming they had the truth.  You have to understand that from our point of view, everything that you claim is conjecture.

Fair point and understood.  I completely understand that anything I believe is scrutinized (as it should be).  I believe that most Christians believe there was a man who lived, died and rose from the dead 2000 years ago named Jesus Christ who performed miracles and had disciples that so ferociously believed in Him they were willing to die.  I believe most Christians believe that the entire universe was created by a being, force, entity (whatever word you like) outside of any natural law.  

Again though anything I say is MY opinion based on my understanding of the information I have consciously elected to intake and make a decision on.  What you believe is not my business.  To each their own.

[FatAndFaithless]

That makes me curious.  How do you agree on what is a "basic tenet" and what is conjecture?  Because Christians have disagreed over..just about every point of doctrine (including whether or not Jesus was all human or all god or both), all the time claiming they had the truth.  You have to understand that from our point of view, everything that you claim is conjecture.

Fair point and understood.  I completely understand that anything I believe is scrutinized (as it should be).  I believe that most Christians believe there was a man who lived, died and rose from the dead 2000 years ago named Jesus Christ who performed miracles and had disciples that so ferociously believed in Him they were willing to die.  I believe most Christians believe that the entire universe was created by a being, force, entity (whatever word you like) outside of any natural law.  

Again though anything I say is MY opinion based on my understanding of the information I have consciously elected to intake and make a decision on.  What you believe is not my business.  To each their own.

Would you say that your understanding of the information is based on scientific and historical foundations, or on faith?  Because "to each his own" is a fine way to live, until the people who believe as you do try to start pushing these beliefs into public schools, because they claim that their beliefs are not only true, but validated by science and history (see creationism in the US public school system).  The problem is that we want to teach our children what is true, but people obviously disagree about what is true.  Would you cordon off these religious beliefs of yours into an area completely separate from scholastic history and science education and keep them as a matter of the church and of faith?

[Gemini]

3.  I agree with Minimalist actually.  I always wonder why some of those who do not believe work so hard to convince others of their unbelief.

Some people are just interested in these kinds of questions. Just out of sheer geeky passion. So it's not hard work and if you convince other people, that's a bonus, but it isn't the raison d'etre for the argument.

[Kingpin]

Fair point and understood.  I completely understand that anything I believe is scrutinized (as it should be).  I believe that most Christians believe there was a man who lived, died and rose from the dead 2000 years ago named Jesus Christ who performed miracles and had disciples that so ferociously believed in Him they were willing to die.  I believe most Christians believe that the entire universe was created by a being, force, entity (whatever word you like) outside of any natural law.  

Again though anything I say is MY opinion based on my understanding of the information I have consciously elected to intake and make a decision on.  What you believe is not my business.  To each their own.

Would you say that your understanding of the information is based on scientific and historical foundations, or on faith?  Because "to each his own" is a fine way to live, until the people who believe as you do try to start pushing these beliefs into public schools, because they claim that their beliefs are not only true, but validated by science and history (see creationism in the US public school system).  The problem is that we want to teach our children what is true, but people obviously disagree about what is true.  Would you cordon off these religious beliefs of yours into an area completely separate from scholastic history and science education and keep them as a matter of the church and of faith?

Great question.  Even though I am a creationist, I am NOT a proponent of creationism in schools as it's wanting to be presented.  Personally, things such as creationism should be left in the elective courses such as World Religions.  There are numerous theories on origins such that one cannot be presented as fact, but there are facts that we can use to deduce our own conclusions.  

As far as myself, my understanding is more of a culmination of all three, but the word faith not as we define it today, but more from it's Greek origins (pistis).  Most people on here know this is my stance and that I am an advocate for freedom of speech and religion.  I believe that if the government allows Christians to hold prayer vigils, setup booths, etc, then at the same token ANY belief system should be afforded that same right.  I have no business forcing my beliefs on anyone.  However when I am asked what I believe I will not shy away from what I hold true.  Nor should anyone.  I am no different than any other person and as such have no right to judge anyone.

[Kingpin]

3.  I agree with Minimalist actually.  I always wonder why some of those who do not believe work so hard to convince others of their unbelief.

Some people are just interested in these kinds of questions. Just out of sheer geeky passion. So it's not hard work and if you convince other people, that's a bonus, but it isn't the raison d'etre for the argument.

I understand that, but one statement I've learned to be irrevocably true is:  "intent is prior to content".