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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 1:29 am
I'm a Muslim.
And no, punishment just adds depth and gives a definition, a weight, to the specified sin, something in our human nature doesn't respond to the real scale of things, unless they drop an emotional and physical damage to the nerves that make up our human side.
That's why you have a prison in your country.
Now, my turn to ask:
Do you need a prison, to be moral?
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 1:40 am
Nope, I just need to know I'm not making other people's lives shitty. I just want society to work because it makes us capable of doing a lot of cool stuff.
Prison adds depth to it in the sense that I don't want bubba to tear my anus apart
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.
Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.
Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.
Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 1:50 am
Quote: That's why you have a prison in your country.
Is that why? I thought it was so corporations could get rich.
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 2:24 am
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2016 at 2:26 am by robvalue.)
No. I don't need any kind of punishment system to be moral. I want to be moral.
Prison is there to protect people, primarily. If the only reason you're not doing something is that you'll go to prison, then you're not moral. You're just being pragmatic. The same can be said about religious motivations, if they are the only reason. I wouldn't expect this to actually be the case for the majority of theists.
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 7:27 am
(June 13, 2016 at 1:29 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I'm a Muslim.
And no, punishment just adds depth and gives a definition, a weight, to the specified sin, something in our human nature doesn't respond to the real scale of things, unless they drop an emotional and physical damage to the nerves that make up our human side.
That's why you have a prison in your country.
Now, my turn to ask:
Do you need a prison, to be moral?
You think the prisons were built by atheists? Do they not have prisons in predominately muslim countries?
Prisons are mans punishment, not gods.
Nope, I don't need a prison.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 11:13 am
(June 12, 2016 at 3:44 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: ...Can theists be moral for the sake of being moral with no strings attached? Without feeling that they are getting a mark on the naughty/nice list? I don't hear this from the very devout.
You are very right to call us Christians out on this. We are called to act for the sake of love (for the sake of human flourishing), rather than acting from a fear of punishment.
All humanity is born with this motivation (not merely theists!), and over time and for a variety of reasons, some of us respond to it better or worse. Hopefully we can all help each other act better in patience.
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 11:19 am
(June 13, 2016 at 12:40 am)robvalue Wrote: The big problem is that morality gets warped by religion. As soon as you introduce other criteria, such as what a sky fairy thinks about your actions, you are poisoning what really matters.
Yeah, is your action really 'moral' if you only do it out of fear of the consequences? If it something you have no intrinsic interest/desire to do otherwise but only do to save you skin, are you a morally good person? If so the standard is awfully low.
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 11:50 am
(June 13, 2016 at 11:13 am)Ignorant Wrote: All humanity is born with this motivation (not merely theists!), and over time and for a variety of reasons, some of us respond to it better or worse. Hopefully we can all help each other act better in patience.
You know, this is the usual human presumptuousness. Don't look left or riight, since we humans are special. Every social species has kind of a moral code. They couldn't work together if they were constantly at each others throats.
Our closest relatives, the great apes, are also closest to human morality. But recent research has shown that dogs might also fall into that category. Hardly surprising, since they need us to survive.
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 11:57 am
(June 13, 2016 at 11:50 am)abaris Wrote: (June 13, 2016 at 11:13 am)Ignorant Wrote: All humanity is born with this motivation (not merely theists!), and over time and for a variety of reasons, some of us respond to it better or worse. Hopefully we can all help each other act better in patience.
You know, this is the usual human presumptuousness. Don't look left or riight, since we humans are special. Every social species has kind of a moral code. They couldn't work together if they were constantly at each others throats.
Our closest relatives, the great apes, are also closest to human morality. But recent research has shown that dogs might also fall into that category. Hardly surprising, since they need us to survive.
I am sorry if I made I cam across as presumptuous. I never claimed that humans are the ONLY species born with this motivation. I merely said that every human is born with it. I am happy to know that we share this with our closest animal relatives.
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RE: Do theists need a threat to be moral?
June 13, 2016 at 12:32 pm
There are some humans who aren't born with it. Some have no empathy, no inherent moral compass.
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