Love the Lord your God with all your heart ?

[The Grand Nudger]

Agape love.  The same type of "love" you would show/have for your earthly parents.  You may not agree with them, even be angry with them at times, but you love them.

If god wants me to love him as I love my parents he's going to need to put in the work that my parents put in.  Even though they -did- put in the work that god has not, I don't recall them ever making any demands to that end, nor spiking their demands with veiled or open threats if I couldn't manage it. This love god demands, the greatest of all his commandments, does not seem, at all, like the love between my parents and myself.

I doubt that god would fail to understand love, how it is developed or nurtured, and only a person who -has- can even begin to make such a demand as "I command you to love me".

[Drich]

So which is the kind of love we're commanded to have for god, in your opinion?  I can't muster any of it but it's always good to know, precisely, what law you're breaking.

Agape' Respect, honor, fear ect.

[The Grand Nudger]

Must be a different kind of respect, honor and fear, even..because there's nothing compelling me to any of that as it does in my life, with other human beings.

[Drich]

Drich,

It appears we may disagree about me being a peacemaker.  It may be thought that I have been working to make clear what we agree with and that I haven't neglected anything you said.  I have not been arrogant, I have been working to be helpful.

Do you think that it is true and false at the same time that loving/goodwill to your fellow man is a part of serving God ?

Now I completely understand what you are saying, in that loving your fellow man is apart of loving God. The answer to that is both yes and no. No in that if by simply loving your fellow man was the same as loving God with all of your heart mind spirit and strength their would not need to be the second of the two greatest commands Jesus points out. ...And Yes loving your fellow Man is the apart of Loving God, because loving only those who love God follow His commands.. and as "loving your neighbor" represents 50% of all of God's commands one can not love God without loving his neighbor.

From what I originally said... Yes and No.

If you think I was saying that Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind is not the first and greatest commandment, what words of mine precisely do you think proves that and will you show precisely how you think they prove what you may think ?

Wow... You really truly still don't know.

Brother it is with respect that i tell you that if you are going to be effective in this mission field you must absolutely READ and process what others tell you. that is why In my initial response I outlined your position first and then corrected it. So as to show you not only do I know what you think, but how it differs from what the bible says. I made a clear distinction that divided love from God with love of your fellow man. It was my belief from what you originally said, that eg. "loving God was made complete or could be done by simply loving your fellow man." I pointed out if this were the case then their would not need to be a need for the second of the two great commands. (To love your neighbor as yourself.) We are told by Christ to love God with all that we are, and to love your neighbor as yourself. If loving your neighbor was tantamount to loving God then we would not need the second commandment, and we would only need the first. Since we have this second command it means that loving God could mean neglect or even bring about harm to your neighbor. Hence the need for the second command.

I don't agree I was saying Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind is not the first and greatest commandment.

No as I outlined you were saying love your neighbor/Serving people the 'right way.' full fills the greatest command. Or, that loving your 'brother the right way' is the same as as full filling the greatest command. It's not. Our love for God has nothing to do with what people think, do, nor how they perceive this love in anyone else. nor does it matter how they judge one's love for God based on the other person's actions.. Again, we can't all be eyes or ears. We are all different parts of the same body, and as a result our love and worship will manifest itself differently. To judge anothers love by how he does or does not interact with others is at the very least persumptious. Because it is using your gifts your standards to set a mark for a member of the body who may or may not have been blessed with your specific gift set.. The same gift set you are using as a corner stone to judge someone else.

Because we are all different our manifestation of this all encompassing love will look slightly different from person to person, and across communities may look vastly different.

So again to say on must interact a certain way with another member of the body to be 'judged' (by you or members of your sect) to be showing an 'appropriate' amount or type of love is foolishness.

I never thought of you as being my brother, maybe you want to be.  So what I did was correct considering the circumstances.
If we are willing to serve God then that is a good condition to be in.

Do you think that is true or false ?

I'm sorry, but titles were never a consideration. It is our works thoughts and deeds that define who we are. not what we call ourselves. If I am treating you the way i would like to be treated, then I am going to tell you let your deeds, your thoughts and your reaction to what it is I do and say be your answer. In turn judge what I say and do, not by how my words make you 'feel' but how closly they strike to what has been written in scripture, (not your preferred doctrine) and also HOW it was written. Judge that, not a declaration of allegiance.
So neither true nor false, seek you answer not in what I say I will do or what I say I think but in my actions.

By God's goodwill we are given sayings to learn how to obey God and serve man and respect or reverence is a part of it.
Do you think that is true or false ?

I would ask you for book chapter and verse. Because what comes to mind is 2 time 3:16 All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. It is useful for correcting faults and teaching the right way to live. 17 Using the Scriptures, those who serve God will be prepared and will have everything they need to do every good work.

Respect and reverence is based on what the 2nd greatest command. In that we are to show the same respect and reverence that we want to be shown.

Do you have scripture that says other wise?
Otherwise I would say false. this is a doctrinal order ascribe to a method of religious worship, not a biblical one.

Wisdom and knowledge are partly beyond words and that all of it comes from God.

Do you think that is true or false ?

Asked and answered.
Wisdom and Knowledge is a Gift of The holy Spirit. The words of Those who have been blessed with such a gift, can only be limited by God in what they know and can say. Those who do not have this Spiritual gift will find themselves "beyond words" most of their life.
So again, true and false depending on your personal relationship with God and the Holy Spirit.

Wisdom and knowledge that comes from God becomes like a part of our being and our thinking of God goes higher.

Do you think that is true or false ?

Wisdom from God will equally shock and astound the speaker of those words, as anyone who hears them. Again, if it is the wisdom of God and not of self then the Id, will have no knowledge of it.
(Peter on the day of Pentecost.)

I'm saying things in investigation of your character, you may agree I know little about you and that a person may say things to someone and then listen to their answer to learn more about them.

Again, if you looking to discern the nature of one's character then do so via the sum total of their contextual content, not one word answers to questions found in a weekly news letter.

Why? because the problem is the world (outside of church) has much greater depth and range than the black or white good or ignore classification you wish to judge me as. For example the people here are a good cross section or example of this. I would say most want to know God, the only problem is pride/they want to know him on their terms and not his. Now if I went to the majority of these guys with a true/false 'test' and only took the true false responses I could quickly deem everyone a heretic and move on. But, I fortunately stayed and dug a little deeper than the surface stuff. what I found are wounded believers. Most of which were injured/casualties of deeply held religious beliefs. The point being it take far more than a check list to evaluate someone. give it time and treat each new topic as if the last did not happen good or bad. don't hold grudges and over time you will build an accurate profile for everyone.

I appreciate any working to obey the command goodwill to your neighbor as yourself and you may compare that command to love your neighbor as yourself.

BCV?? "Good will to your neighbor."

"keeping in mind what may be the condition of the person or persons who you plan to speak to"

are you Mormon?

Thinking about that in the context of the paragraph it was in and that I put to you and thinking about it in terms of love/goodwill to your neighbor as yourself, do you think if a person is traumatized or timid, you should speak to them roughly or gently, with patience or impatience ?

I don't think arrogance is a strength.  I don't think being unmerciful by our words helps people.

I think, traumatized person needs more than words. and the specifics of a situation should dictate how the traumatized person should be approached. Timid people get the same evaluation as anyone else.

Start with the truth and carefully reflect back tone timber escalate and or deescalate as needed.

Again all should be based on what the second command says. Treat others as you would want to be treated.

[Drich]

Must be a different kind of respect, honor and fear, even..because there's nothing compelling me to any of that as it does in my life, with other human beings.

You do not respect honor nor fear anyone in this life?

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm wondering how you could walk away from the response you quoted and wonder that....frankly. OFC I do...as I just said I did. Only noticing that this must be a different type of fear, honor and respect..because I can't muster it for the character of your god regardless of how naturally it comes to me with real beings, actual persons. Hell...I can even muster it up for -some- fictional characters. God just isn't respectable, isn't honorable, isn't frightening...to me. Commanding me to feel this way is a phenomenal misunderstanding of human nature.

[Rhondazvous]

This resonates with me, as someone who was raised by a very violent and abusive Mother.  I was required to call her "Ma'am", kiss her goodnight, and say "I love you".  Of course, I knew that if I didn't, I would get my head put through the nearest wall.  Did I want her to love me?  Oh yes.  And I desperately wanted to not have to be afraid anymore.  That never happened.
     It strikes me as much the same with the god concept.  Sure, you're supposed to praise because you have been "saved" from the ultimate eternal torture.  (Similar to "Yay, she didn't hit me today.")  But there is this constant message of being born FILTHY and sinful, the constant fear of being truly unworthy and disobedient, and the constant begging for forgiveness and promises to do better.

You're worthless, the only thing that makes you not worthless is ME, and you if you don't obey me every second I may have to torture you forever no matter what you say. 

It also sounds a lot like an abusive husband.  

How true. An abusive god created by a society that thought parents and husbands owned their children and wives and were justified in whatever they wanted to do. Such a religion has no place in the 21st century.

The whole thing about worthlessness is the same tactic used in commercial advertising. "You're inadequate. You don't have what it takes and you never will unless you buy what we're selling."

[Drich]

I'm wondering how you could walk away from the response you quoted and wonder that....frankly.  OFC I do...as I just said I did.  Only noticing that this must be a different type of fear, honor and respect..because I can't muster it for the character of your god regardless of how naturally it comes to me with real beings, actual persons.  Hell...I can even muster it up for -some- fictional characters.  God just isn't respectable, isn't honorable, isn't frightening...to me.  Commanding me to feel this way is a phenomenal misunderstanding of human nature.

Why??? Why isn't god honorable or respectable to you?

[Drich]

This resonates with me, as someone who was raised by a very violent and abusive Mother.  I was required to call her "Ma'am", kiss her goodnight, and say "I love you".  Of course, I knew that if I didn't, I would get my head put through the nearest wall.  Did I want her to love me?  Oh yes.  And I desperately wanted to not have to be afraid anymore.  That never happened.
     It strikes me as much the same with the god concept.  Sure, you're supposed to praise because you have been "saved" from the ultimate eternal torture.  (Similar to "Yay, she didn't hit me today.")  But there is this constant message of being born FILTHY and sinful, the constant fear of being truly unworthy and disobedient, and the constant begging for forgiveness and promises to do better.

You're worthless, the only thing that makes you not worthless is ME, and you if you don't obey me every second I may have to torture you forever no matter what you say. 

It also sounds a lot like an abusive husband.  

How true. An abusive god created by a society that thought parents and husbands owned their children and wives and were justified in whatever they wanted to do. Such a religion has no place in the 21st century.

The whole thing about worthlessness is the same tactic used in commercial advertising. "You're inadequate. You don't have what it takes and you never will unless you buy what we're selling."

and if you and your meme are wrong?

What if it has nothing to do with worth, what's being sold or abuse? Again what is it is a simple matter of infected/sick verse vaccinated/cured?

Just suspend the egyptian idea of after life being warranted on works or deeds, and just assume for a moment that eternal life is based on something different. Let's say it is based on being inoculated for a sickness or disease. If one does not get his medicine the will be segregated from the well population and die.

That is what atonement is. It is a protection for the disease of sin.

I'm using the example of the zombie virus in another thread.. Let's say sin is like the Zombie virus. Does it matter if your a good person or not. If you have the zombie virus even if you have not fully turned yet you can still infect others. So then should your 'morality or character' matter when quarantining those who are infect from those who have been inoculated?

What shouldn't be allowed in the 21 century is the atheistic straw man that puts Christianity on the same basis of all other works based religions.

[FatAndFaithless]

Drich, if a person lives their life morally, helps his loved ones, doesn't hurt anyone, supports charity, and does good works...but they don't accept or love or worship Jesus/God... are they still considered 'diseased' with sin?