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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 4:25 pm
(This post was last modified: June 17, 2016 at 4:27 pm by IATIA.)
It takes faith to believe in a god without evidence.
I have no proof for a god. I have no evidence for a god. I have no logically sound reason to expect that there is a god. Hell, I have no description for a god.
Why? Because there is no god. I do not believe or hope there is no god. I do not need faith for that.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
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Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 5:18 pm
(June 17, 2016 at 4:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I would have expected the earthworks to have been built before you chose to make the claim, and then kinda sorta - but not...back down from it. It's a peeve because we (as in..strong atheists) get this particular argument from all sides, and no amount of discussing it ever seems to correct either the christers -or- our fellow atheists.
We watch you field arguments responding to theists claiming that -you- are "atheists based upon faith" effortlessly, so it's a "WTF?" moment to see you parrot not only the arguments, but the weaseling language...of those same godbothering dipshits.
The thing is, when you're talking about numbers of people, nuance is useful. It may look weaselly to you, but what can I say? Some strong atheists make a definitive claim which they cannot support, and some of those atheists get butthurt when that's pointed out.
I don't think as many strong atheists get butthurt when religionistas preach at them as religionistas do when told their beliefs are silly. I don't have hard data to back up that opinion, so I'm not going to fight it out. It's an opinion. If you take it or leave it, it's no skin off'n my ass either way.
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 5:35 pm
(June 17, 2016 at 1:23 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Are you saying that there are no positive/strong atheists? I mean, they have a positive belief that god(s) don't exist -- and it could be argued that it's a faith.
Is faith required to positively believe that Gandalf does not exist?
If so, then sure. Gnostic atheism requires faith.
If, however, it is reasonable to conclude that all accounts of Gandalf are fictional (since we can trace their authorship , and their veracity is not reflected by real world evidence), then it seems pretty reasonable to me to also conclude that Gandalf does not exist as a non-fictional person.
If we can conclude that Gandalf is purely and exclusively fiction, then we also ought to be able to do the same thing with Jehovah, Zeus, and any of the other easily-debunked characters that man has assigned the title of "god."
Beyond the realm of specific religious characters, god becomes a "higher power" so vague and meaningless that the argument is essentially reduced to "You can't logically assert the nonexistence of an entity that I refer to as 'god,' yet refuse to define."
You're right. I can't. Looks like you'd better be able to define a thing before the question is raised of whether said thing actually exists.
Not you, obviously. Just the hypothetical theist I implicitly created for this example.
Fuck language.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 5:58 pm
(June 17, 2016 at 5:18 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The thing is, when you're talking about numbers of people, nuance is useful. It may look weaselly to you, but what can I say? Some strong atheists make a definitive claim which they cannot support, and some of those atheists get butthurt when that's pointed out. If they were getting trolled by arguments that the people trolling them routinely fielded off when presented -to- them....I can understand. That's what I was trying to express.
Quote:I don't think as many strong atheists get butthurt when religionistas preach at them as religionistas do when told their beliefs are silly. I don't have hard data to back up that opinion, so I'm not going to fight it out. It's an opinion. If you take it or leave it, it's no skin off'n my ass either way.
I'm not doubting your opinion or experience, at all....we're missing each other here, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 6:34 pm
(This post was last modified: June 17, 2016 at 6:34 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
Rhythm, I think I get what you're trying to say, but I'll have to get home -- I'm at work now -- so I can take the time to turn it over in my head.
Redbeard, you seem to think that I'm criticizing the strong atheist position itself. I'm not ... nor am I trying to shift evidentiary burden.
I much agree with Rob above -- regarding this or that specific deity, I'm happy to say it doesn't exist, and it's not based on faith, but contrary evidence and internal contradictions.
I am talking about how some strong atheists who reject the possibility of any god existing don't care for having that position argued. I'm not saying that all strong atheists think that way, nor am I critiquing their position.
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 6:51 pm
(This post was last modified: June 17, 2016 at 6:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 17, 2016 at 6:34 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: regarding this or that specific deity, I'm happy to say it doesn't exist, and it's not based on faith, but contrary evidence and internal contradictions. So, too..and for the same reasons, do strong atheists. At some point, we'll run out of gods to specify and we still won't have found one I believe in.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 7:00 pm
(June 17, 2016 at 6:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (June 17, 2016 at 6:34 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: regarding this or that specific deity, I'm happy to say it doesn't exist, and it's not based on faith, but contrary evidence and internal contradictions. So, too..and for the same reasons, do strong atheists. At some point, we'll run out of gods to specify and we still won't have found one I believe in.
No doubt ... this is exactly why I wasn't talking about all strong atheists.
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 7:01 pm
The only thing I should learn to accept is myself for who I am.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 7:13 pm
(This post was last modified: June 17, 2016 at 7:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I think we're missing each other again. I'm a bad communicator tonight, apparently.
Does it take you any faith to believe the same things I believe, or rather -in context-..to not believe in all of the things I don't believe?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?
June 17, 2016 at 7:27 pm
(June 17, 2016 at 7:13 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I think we're missing each other again. I'm a bad communicator tonight, apparently.
Does it take you any faith to believe the same things I believe, or rather -in context-..to not believe in all of the things I don't believe?
No, if we're missing each other I carry my share of the burden too. The reason why my strong atheism is not faith-based is because I don't make the claim "no god(s) can exist", I only address each claim on its own merits, or lack thereof, more accurately.
Again, I'm only talking about a subset of strong atheists.
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