Are the churches using atheists to gain more converts?

[Homeless Nutter]

This really interests me, I see all the debates happening in Christian churches with atheists and have a sneaky feeling that those churches are using the debates to get more converts? I personally hope this is back firing on the churches, so would appreciate any thoughts or examples either way ...

Is religion growing or decreasing in the USA?

As dumb and ignorant, as most religious demagogues are - even they are not naive enough to hope to convert atheists through debate. It's theater aimed at christians, to give their beliefs an illusion of relevance in the secular, science-oriented modern world, to allow them to keep up appearances of academic diligence and to distract them from the fact, that christianity has been slowly losing influence, ever since they've been unable to burn their opponents and dissidents at the stake.

If any of the christian debaters do actually hope to convert anyone - it's mainly members of competing denominations. Because if someone's already drinking the cool-aid, then they might be persuaded to drink your particular brand...

[madog]

Maybe just my suspicious mind .... I can understand the Christian debaters as they make a name and get paid to debate, that it might damage their church comes second place to their own self promotion, but there must be something in it for the churches, they are not in the business of promoting freethinking ...

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This really interests me, I see all the debates happening in Christian churches with atheists and have a sneaky feeling that those churches are using the debates to get more converts? I personally hope this is back firing on the churches, so would appreciate any thoughts or examples either way ...

Is religion growing or decreasing in the USA?

As dumb and ignorant, as most religious demagogues are - even they are not naive enough to hope to convert atheists through debate. It's theater aimed at christians, to give their beliefs an illusion of relevance in the secular, science-oriented modern world, to allow them to keep up appearances of academic diligence and to distract them from the fact, that christianity has been slowly losing influence, ever since they've been unable to burn their opponents and dissidents at the stake.

If any of the christian debaters do actually hope to convert anyone - it's mainly members of competing denominations. Because if someone's already drinking the cool-aid, then they might be persuaded to drink your particular brand...

Good answer

[robvalue]

"I have no opening statement. I'm not making any claims. I shall merely be challenging any unsupported claims put forward by my opponent."

Robvalue, imaginary debate #3

[madog]

 

The shit is dying out.

As I said great that this shit is dying out, but its still a massive percentage  .....

Is there anything visible that shows the decline?

Any examples, it really shocks me when I look at how strong religion appears to be in the USA or at least to me an outsider.

[KevinM1]

 

The shit is dying out.

As I said great that this shit is dying out, but its still a massive percentage  .....

Is there anything visible that shows the decline?

Any examples, it really shocks me when I look at how strong religion appears to be in the USA or at least to me an outsider.

Numbers aren't hard to find: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/ameri...landscape/

Basically, Christianity is declining pretty quickly, non-affiliated is growing slightly less quickly, and non-Christian is growing slightly.

EDIT: Looking at the breakdown for non-affiliated, it seems like the bulk of the growth is by apatheists, people who don't really give a shit, to the point of not identifying with agnosticism or atheism.

[Homeless Nutter]

[...]Any examples, it really shocks me when I look at how strong religion appears to be in the USA or at least to me an outsider.

I think religion appears strong in USA for a number of socio-political reasons, but mainly due to separation of church and state, as well as multi-cultural background of the relatively young nation, combined with freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

In most European countries there are only 1 or 2 main religions, which have established their position over centuries, often to the point of actually integrating to an extent with the government (as is the case with Anglicanism in the UK). The effect of this is that those religions don't have as much need for aggressive self-promotion, or desperate attempts at gaining political advantage through un-constitutional legislature. Because they pretty much achieved what they could have reasonably hoped for and making a nuisance of themselves would be likely to bring attention to their over-privilege.

In US, there are many different religions and denominations, who have been fighting for power ever since the country has been established and who have been largely prevented from advancing their efforts by constitution of the US, as well as by each other. Because of that - all they're left with is their freedom to make as much noise as possible and saturate US political system with religiously inspired bill proposals.
This struggle for power also makes religion in US more romantic and feeds christian persecution complex, while in Europe religion is seen more as part of the establishment - just another layer of bureaucracy, boring and only appealing to old people.

[madog]

[...]Any examples, it really shocks me when I look at how strong religion appears to be in the USA or at least to me an outsider.

I think religion appears strong in USA for a number of socio-political reasons, but mainly due to separation of church and state, as well as multi-cultural background of the relatively young nation, combined with freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

In most European countries there are only 1 or 2 main religions, which have established their position over centuries, often to the point of actually integrating to an extent with the government (as is the case with Anglicanism in the UK). The effect of this is that those religions don't have as much need for aggressive self-promotion, or desperate attempts at gaining political advantage through un-constitutional legislature. Because they pretty much achieved what they could have reasonably hoped for and making a nuisance of themselves would be likely to bring attention to their over-privilege.

In US, there are many different religions and denominations, who have been fighting for power ever since the country has been established and who have been largely prevented from advancing their efforts by constitution of the US, as well as by each other. Because of that - all they're left with is their freedom to make as much noise as possible and saturate US political system with religiously inspired bill proposals.
This struggle for power also makes religion in US more romantic and feeds christian persecution complex,  while in Europe religion is seen more as part of the establishment - just another layer of bureaucracy, boring and only appealing to old people.

I think you have something there .... So strange that with what you state above it has evolved in the UK into a situation where an MP or Prime minister quoting "God", for any action of the state, would be in office for a very short time in the UK, whereas it is the norm in the USA 

I don't know the answer, but for some reason shoving the church in a back cupboard of the state virtually castrates them, whereas separating the church from state causes them to be powerful, in the actual running of the state, to the point that to actually to be voted to become part of the state you must profess strong religious beliefs 

[Losty]

How does 94% to 84% count as dying out?

[Homeless Nutter]

[...]
I don't know the answer, but for some reason shoving the church in a back cupboard of the state virtually castrates them, whereas separating the church from state causes them to be powerful, in the actual running of the state, to the point that to actually to be voted to become part of the state you must profess strong religious beliefs 

Make no mistake - many of the European churches are by no means castrated. They're able to reap huge profits and abuse political systems, only they do so without attracting much attention. American religious organizations on the other hand don't have much actual political power, because they're in competition with each other and highly localized. Sure - the word "god" is a prerequisite for any american political campaign, but it doesn't usually translate to any one particular church controlling the democratic process. It's the idea of religion (well - mainly christianity) that's powerful in US, not any one religion/denomination itself.

[madog]

How does 94% to 84% count as dying out?

Does actually beg the question if the drop is a move in the right direction or whether more people are prepared to admit their non belief?

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[...]
I don't know the answer, but for some reason shoving the church in a back cupboard of the state virtually castrates them, whereas separating the church from state causes them to be powerful, in the actual running of the state, to the point that to actually to be voted to become part of the state you must profess strong religious beliefs 

Make no mistake - many of the European churches are by no means castrated. They're able to reap huge profits and abuse political systems, only they do so without attracting much attention. American religious organizations on the other hand don't have much actual political power, because they're in competition with each other and highly localized. Sure - the word "god" is a prerequisite for any american political campaign, but it doesn't usually translate to any one particular church controlling the democratic process. It's the idea of religion (well - mainly christianity) that's powerful in US, not any one religion/denomination itself.

Mmm, they don't have much influence on stuff like gay marriage, abortion, etc. etc, in the UK. it appears to me they do in the USA ... Do I like them being anywhere in a civilized society ... no ..... but whatever influence they have doesn't appear to be as apparent as what I perceive to be the case in the USA ... As I said I am open minded on the issue.

What I can say is I got looked at stranger, when I declared I was a "born again Christian" than when I said I didn't believe in a God ... and that was 40 years ago, the church has lost even more influence in the UK since then .....