Ex-Mormons/Fundamentalist Christians in the House

[vorlon13]

When confronted with all the DRASTICALLY different versions of the first visitation approved by Joseph Smith, they usually remark "It's amazing how well they all agree with each" which, of course is a total pile of shit.

Joseph saw God
-or-
Joseph saw God and Jesus
-or-
Joseph saw multitude of angels
-or-
Joseph saw one angel

yada yada yada.


And then realize, it says in the Book of Mormon, (written AFTER the first visitation) that without the priest hood, no one can look at God and live.

Ooops, if Joseph really saw God before the LDS church could confer priesthoods, that means Joseph DIED at the first visitation.


Book of Mormon forbids polygamy too. Funny how they missed that part, and then found it again later, ain't it ?

[LivingNumbers6.626]

When confronted with all the DRASTICALLY different versions of the first visitation approved by Joseph Smith, they usually remark "It's amazing how well they all agree with each"  which, of course is a total pile of shit.

Joseph saw God
-or-
Joseph saw God and Jesus
-or-
Joseph saw multitude of angels
-or-
Joseph saw one angel

yada yada yada.


And then realize, it says in the Book of Mormon, (written AFTER the first visitation) that without the priest hood, no one can look at God and live.

Ooops, if Joseph really saw God before the LDS church could confer priesthoods, that means Joseph DIED at the first visitation.


Book of Mormon forbids polygamy too.  Funny how they missed that part, and then found it again later, ain't it ?

hahaha. Yeah...the contradictions in the mormon faith far out do many other religions I think.

[vorlon13]

Maybe not.

The Mormons have 3 things running against them:

1) they are a recent enough faith (<200 years old)

2) they foolish recorded tons and tons and tons of their chicanery

3) and were STUPID enough to publish a pile of it


I think we would have similar poop on many/most other faiths were they recent enough and brain impaired enough to leave a paper trail.

The Catholics, despite centuries to loose things, have managed to keep records of priests molesting children going back 1500 years. I'm sure most of the back room wheeling and dealing at the Council of Nicea is lost forever, but just seeing how the Mormons played the game (and essentially spilled the beans on the How To Make A Religion play book) is EXTREMELY informative.

We can be sure that sincerity, fealty, piety and 'God' moving their hearts towards His desired goals at that Council is definitely the last thing that might have happened. For example, when Joseph Smith and the inner circle were banging out how Mormon polygamy was going to work, they started off agreeing the Old Testament model was going to be followed to the letter. But then, oops, somebody picked up a Bible and started reading it and they found out one man could not marry 2 (or more) sisters and additionally, it was forbidden for a man to marry a mother and her daughter. Well by the time old horny Joe got around to working out the rules for polygamy, many of the inner circle were already doing it, and there were already sisters married to one man a and mother/daughter pairs married too. So, with out bothering to consult God (or Jesus, or Adam, or Michael, or Moroni) they hammered out amongst themselves what the rules were going to be and they didn't adopt any rules that would spoil anybody's fun. And they took notes about how they made those rules, and sooner or later, somebody spilled the beans.

Well, there's your 'playbook'. Religion 101, and I can't imagine why any other religion would have 'made the sausage' any differently. The amazing thing about the Mormons was they were detarded enough to take notes and then not burn them afterwards. We can be assured any other faith hammered into existence by people was done the same way the Mormons did it.

LDS gave religion as a whole quite a black eye, didn't it ?

[vorlon13]

Another failing perhaps; Joe made the crucial mistake of putting True Believers in his inner circle. Sincere, well meaning folks who bought all Joe's crap, lock stock and barrel.

So when Joe announced a revelation that noted God expected them to be a record keeping people, it didn't occur to the pious folks in the org chart NOT to record the chicanery. While it is beyond obvious a paper trail delineating where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, is a bad thing then as now, we apparently will always have dum-dums that just can't grasp the bigger (scammy) picture.

Anyhow, a tip of the hat to Joe for failing to realize that 'record keeping' revelation was going to bite his church in the ass for decades to come. Current LDS poobahs understand all too well the perils of a paper trail in an inherently corrupt organization with specious and flexible dogma, and are keeping a VERY tight hold on releasing incriminating documents these days.

That the horse is already out of the barn limits their effectiveness, but they're trying.

[drfuzzy]

1) How long did it take you to come to peace with leaving admitting disbelief? It took me about 1.5 years, the guilt and denial was on and off.
          I think it was gradual.  A lot of small bits and pieces just didn't make sense.  I remember asking my Mother why there were two different creation stories when I was little, and she had an absolute furious meltdown - I knew never to imply that the Bible wasn't perfect in her presence again.  I pulled away from the Christian Church in my 20's and dabbled in Paganism . . . I wanted something spiritual, but eventually Paganism just didn't make sense either.
          Then one Easter, while playing the organ for church, I just abruptly realized that "I just can't believe any of this crap . . . !"  I live in the Bible Belt, though, and I have to be careful who I tell.



2) How close are you to your family? Is there a feeling that you may never "fit in" again with your family after leaving? I kind of get that feeling...but I'm at peace with that now too.
           My brother and I are both gay, so we were both disowned decades ago.  But to my Mother, "atheist" is about as evil as any human can get - much worse than homosexual.  And she once told my brother and me that all queers should be lined up against a wall and shot, so . . . I'm kind of glad I won't get a chance to tell her.

3) After being accustom to Mormon culture for a long time (perhaps since birth) did you ever find yourself socially awkward at times when exploring places and opportunities you could never had if you were still a TBM?
            Pentecostal Protestant here . . . but no.  I'm socially awkward no matter where I am.  

[LivingNumbers6.626]

Another failing perhaps; Joe made the crucial mistake of putting True Believers in his inner circle.  Sincere, well meaning folks who bought all Joe's crap, lock stock and barrel.  

So when Joe announced a revelation that noted God expected them to be a record keeping people, it didn't occur to the pious folks in the org chart NOT to record the chicanery.  While it is beyond obvious a paper trail delineating where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, is a bad thing then as now, we apparently will always have dum-dums that just can't grasp the bigger (scammy) picture.

Anyhow, a tip of the hat to Joe for failing to realize that 'record keeping' revelation was going to bite his church in the ass for decades to come.  Current LDS poobahs understand all too well the perils of a paper trail in an inherently corrupt organization with specious and flexible dogma, and are keeping a VERY tight hold on releasing incriminating documents these days.

That the horse is already out of the barn limits their effectiveness, but they're trying.

Yeah, to be honest, after growing up de facto mormon by birth and accepting basically everything (with the exception of old testament rubbish) that the church had to offer, their beliefs, and their culture with the obvious diluted state of mind encompassed in the thought "I am so lucky to be mormon with all the truth"....I am quite overwhelmed, even now, regarding all the conniving intellectual dishonesty perpetuated by the church. Like after growing up for 21 years I had thought the whole church was on purpose, guided by truth and reason, and that it was exactly the way things were supposed to be as directed by God and then discovering that it was all just IMPROVISATION. And then I spent a great deal of time stressing over the reason why I was the only one that saw it in my entire family. Insane...haha

[LivingNumbers6.626]

1) How long did it take you to come to peace with leaving admitting disbelief? It took me about 1.5 years, the guilt and denial was on and off.
          I think it was gradual.  A lot of small bits and pieces just didn't make sense.  I remember asking my Mother why there were two different creation stories when I was little, and she had an absolute furious meltdown - I knew never to imply that the Bible wasn't perfect in her presence again.  I pulled away from the Christian Church in my 20's and dabbled in Paganism . . . I wanted something spiritual, but eventually Paganism just didn't make sense either.
          Then one Easter, while playing the organ for church, I just abruptly realized that "I just can't believe any of this crap . . . !"  I live in the Bible Belt, though, and I have to be careful who I tell.



2) How close are you to your family? Is there a feeling that you may never "fit in" again with your family after leaving? I kind of get that feeling...but I'm at peace with that now too.
           My brother and I are both gay, so we were both disowned decades ago.  But to my Mother, "atheist" is about as evil as any human can get - much worse than homosexual.  And she once told my brother and me that all queers should be lined up against a wall and shot, so . . . I'm kind of glad I won't get a chance to tell her.

3) After being accustom to Mormon culture for a long time (perhaps since birth) did you ever find yourself socially awkward at times when exploring places and opportunities you could never had if you were still a TBM?
            Pentecostal Protestant here . . . but no.  I'm socially awkward no matter where I am.  

Wow...I guess I have it considerably lucky with my family. But I suppose that is one of the perks of growing up in a two generational California mormon. Believe me...generations and geological location really effects the culture of the mormon family. haha! But thank you for your input. I am so sorry you had to deal with the pentacosts. I've dealt with her bastard brother of the apostolic type and quite frankly....what became of the Pentacostal movement was nothing but fear and human degradation. If there was a hell, they would definitely be the founders since they know so much about it. haha