The real religion?

[LadyForCamus]

Steve...by your logic:

I experience a personal relationship with Genie from 'Aladdin' (Disney version). Therefore, this is proof that the Genie from Disney's 'Aladdin' exists.

Air tight, man.

[Simon Moon]

Billions of people have entered into a relationship with God. Their experience/testimony would be empirical evidence for everything we are discussing. 

Billions of people have CLAIMED to have entered a relationship with 'God', many gods actually.

If 1.5 billion Muslims clam to have a personal relationship with their god, is that 'empirical evidence' that Allah exists?

You are guilty of the fallacy of special pleading. Not too impressive.

I doubt whether you know what the term 'empirical evidence' means.

Do you believe that every Christian that claims to have entered a 'personal relationship with God' has actually done so, or is there some percentage of Christians that are delusional, or fooling themselves, or misinterpreting some other feeling as a 'personal relationship with God'?

[bennyboy]

I have examined the truth claims of the Bible. Also, Judaism, Islam, Mormonism, JW, and a little Hinduism. What is your point? 

No you haven't. You're making it up. Tell me about your great study of the "truth claims" of the Bible. Have you examined the truth claim of Jesus' miracles? Or even his existence? I want specific details about specific truth claims, because I don't believe that you've done what you say you've done. Never happened.

Billions of people have entered into a relationship with God. Their experience/testimony would be empirical evidence for everything we are discussing. 

You don't know what "empirical" means, then. Would you like a link to an online dictionary?

I have met Christians. Many do not model Christ very well. Many do. Your point? 

If your point is there is no proof for God, I obviously would disagree. Among other things, why isn't someone's experience proof for the existence of God?

I dreamed I was having sex with Tomb Raider era Angelina Jolie. It felt really really real to me. . . So I guess that proves I really had sex with her.

Oh wait. . . feelings aren't evidence for anything but feelings. Just because you can psych yourself into getting boosebumps when you talk about The Lord doesn't mean that your fairy tales represent reality.

[Edwardo Piet]

Steve...by your logic:

I experience a personal relationship with Genie from 'Aladdin' (Disney version).  Therefore, this is proof that the Genie from Disney's 'Aladdin' exists.

Air tight, man.  

Maybe this means Robin is till with us

I hope so.

[SteveII]

Among other things, why isn't someone's experience proof for the existence of God?

So what sort of experiences happen among so-called "born again Christians" that other people could never experience without turning to Christ?

Well, the list of verses I posted earlier touches on several aspects (see below) but the biggest one is having a relationship with God (Holy Spirit). It would change you. 

Matt 11:28: “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. "
II Cor 5:17 "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come"
Eph 1:3 "We have been blessed in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ "
I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Gal 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. " (aka fruits of the spirit)
I John 1:3-4 "That which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete."
John 14:15-17 "“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

[GrandizerII]

So what sort of experiences happen among so-called "born again Christians" that other people could never experience without turning to Christ?

Well, the list of verses I posted earlier touches on several aspects (see below) but the biggest one is having a relationship with God (Holy Spirit). It would change you. 

Matt 11:28: “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. "
II Cor 5:17 "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come"
Eph 1:3 "We have been blessed in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ "
I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Gal 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. " (aka fruits of the spirit)
I John 1:3-4 "That which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete."
John 14:15-17 "“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

Been there, done that. Nothing observable happened that couldn't have happened for anyone without Christ. Same with all the other "born again" Christians I have known personally.

[bennyboy]

Well, the list of verses I posted earlier touches on several aspects (see below) but the biggest one is having a relationship with God (Holy Spirit). It would change you. 

Matt 11:28: “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. "
II Cor 5:17 "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come"
Eph 1:3 "We have been blessed in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ "
I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Gal 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. " (aka fruits of the spirit)
I John 1:3-4 "That which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete."
John 14:15-17 "“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

Yeah, nobody can have peace, kindness, or love without Jesus our Lord and Personal Savior™.

So. . . how is the personal relationship of Zika babies with God? Working out pretty well for them, is it?

[SteveII]

[SteveII]

Among other things, why isn't someone's experience proof for the existence of God?

Because it is not reproducible. It is only their story/testimony. People have stories about experience with aliens. Do you consider that proof of aliens? People have stories about experience with bigfoot. People have stories about experience with poltergeists. People have stories about experience talking to the dead. Do you consider any of these proof?

You are wallowing in your delusion, which is fine. Don't expect me to join you.

There are 2.3 billion "Christians" in the world. Don't you think that we can find at least a few hundred million that we can see genuine change and that firmly believe they have a relationship with God? The alien thing is so old and makes no point whatsoever no matter how many times it is repeated. Do billions of alien abductees (or whatever you want to insert in this sentence) share a common experience over two millennium?

[SteveII]

Steve...by your logic:

I experience a personal relationship with Genie from 'Aladdin' (Disney version).  Therefore, this is proof that the Genie from Disney's 'Aladdin' exists.

Air tight, man.  

Find a few billion people who share your experience and track those people over 2000 years and you might have a point that makes sense.