Drumpf?

[Aroura]

People been voting third party for many a decade. Hell, a thrid party even got a mentional amount of votes like 30 years ago!

Has that changed our 2 party system at all? no? hmmm. Well, I guess you can just keep doing that and telling yourself you are the ones trying to make changes.

There needs to be change, but just voting 3rd party isn't the way to do it. It's a lazy way to protest the current system.
And if you are in a swing state, voting 3rd party during this particular election cycle sure as hell isn't going to do it. I mean, I guess getting Trump in office will make some big political changes, but probably not the ones progressive 3rd party voters are looking for.

[Seraphina]

I see several people here are vitriolic and more than a little prolific in their posts that portrayTrump in a negative light.  It is not hard to find common ground as to why he may be a poor candidate for President.  

Would anyone care to articulate why we should cast our vote for Mrs Clinton, as she is the only viable option remaining with a real chance of winning?

Please refrain from arguing for a third party, I voted for Perot in 92, unlikely I could be swayed into going down that road again.

Asking why we should vote for a particular candidate is far more interesting than going to the tired old cliché "voting for the lesser of 2 evils", which reeks of voter apathy and laziness.

Mrs. Clinton chaired the task force back in the 90s that attempted to reform health care. No reforms were made at that time and you can research for yourself why that didn't happen until Obamacare.
She's held elected office in Congress so she has some experience with the process of how laws are made/ sausage-making.
She's pledged to make college costs more affordable/ free, which rings true with me (although we should always be wary of campaign promises that don't pan out).
Also, the French president hasn't said she makes him "want to retch", like he said about Grump this week.

[Aroura]

Voter apathy is a serious, serious problem in our country. Not something to be mocked.

There are many good people who currently feel apathetic, and won't vote for anyone, or will only cast their vote for a candidate reluctantly. Do you think making them feel worse about themselves by calling hem lazy is going to move their asses into an excited position? It's more likely to take voters who are at least voting, and turn them into one of those who just stay home, because they are frustrated that their vote doesn't really count anyway.

I've voted in every election since I turned 18. This may be the first time I don't bother. I'm not sure yet. But, my state is pretty solid blue. I will be mocked no matter who I vote for or why, or if I don't vote. So why bother? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

This is the MOST frustrating election ever.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Exactly. How are we supposed to change things if we just keep going along with how they already are? I admit we won't win this election but with the whole country at both Clinton and Trumps' throats it is opening a wonderful gap that shows there are other options. Maybe in time if we keep spreading the info, keep showing the good side, and keep fighting we will win. Plant the seed now and watch it grow through patience and nurturing.

Fight the good fight, baby, if we go down, we go down swinging.

[Minimalist]

Exactly. How are we supposed to change things if we just keep going along with how they already are?

You do the work that needs to be done.  Actually, you listen to Sanders.  GET INVOLVED.  You don't like democrats the way they are then do what the fucking religious right did to the republicunts in the 70's and the Tea Baggers did in 2010.  Join and take it over.  Run for school boards, city council slots, push the party to the left from inside just the way they pushed the GOP to the right.

Voting for Jill Stein or the other shithead is so nice.  You may as well pray for god to change things for all the good that will do.

Oh, but that's work, isn't it?

[Thumpalumpacus]

You know the huge problem with that?  I don't even get to vote in the primaries.  So I didn't even get to vote for Bernie!

What are you doing to change that? Can you not introduce and/or vote for an initiative to allow for open primaries?

[Thumpalumpacus]

There needs to be change, but just voting 3rd party isn't the way to do it.  It's a lazy way to protest the current system.

It sure beats complacency, don't you agree? And to follow on -- what do you think is the activist way to change the system -- and how are you pursuing that?

Calling others "lazy" when you cannot be bothered to even change the box you tick on the ballot strikes me as a little silly. If you've got better ideas for changing the system without shedding blood, by all means speak up. I'd be very interested in hearing your ideas on a better way to effect meaningful change.

And if you are in a swing state, voting 3rd party during this particular election cycle sure as hell isn't going to do it.  I mean, I guess getting Trump in office will make some big political changes, but probably not the ones progressive 3rd party voters are looking for.

I've made my response to this point before you even made this post. Scroll up and read a little?

[Thumpalumpacus]

You do the work that needs to be done.  Actually, you listen to Sanders.  GET INVOLVED. 

There you have it. Talk is cheap.

Nonexistent god will forgive me for agreeing with Min, but hey, shit happens.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Still, the reason we're stuck voting for the lesser of two evils each election is that people have convinced themselves that they have to vote for one of the two major parties.

Exactly. The polity has bought into the scheme, not realizing there's another way of doing things.

[tjakey]

I'll be voting in Florida this year. It took me a while to get to this place, but I'll be voting for Clinton. At this point the only thing that matters is making sure Trump does not get the launch codes to the world's largest and deadliest nuclear arsenal. Nothing else matters; not the need for a viable third party, not Clinton's alleged crimes, not the fact that the Democrats are as much a part of the deluded ruling elite as any, not global warming, infrastructure decay, or the Supreme Court...none of it matters compared to the risk of having a delusional, narcissist, madman with his finger on that button. The nation, and the world, will survive four or eight years of Clinton. It will not be a picnic, she is likely to be as poor an excuse for a President and anyone in my life time. (That would be 11.)

My belief is that Trump in the White House nearly guarantees the fall of the US. Bad enough. But there are a hundred ways that such a fall could result in a nuclear exchange, and that is the end of our civilization. The only rational choice is to vote for Clinton and hope for the best.