Zimmerman deserved to get punched, time to move on with our lives.

[Faith No More]

You know, maybe you should catch up with the thread before responding to my posts?

I was caught up, but thanks for assuming I wasn't, you prick.  

[Excited Penguin]

You know, maybe you should catch up with the thread before responding to my posts?

I was caught up, but thanks for assuming I wasn't, you prick.  

Ok, I don't know why you're calling me a prick, but if you're caught up, I don't know how you missed the point the conversation reached, namely is someone racist because they don't agree a person who killed another person who happened to be black deserves to get punched by a stranger after he brags about it in a public place?

I don't think racism has anything to do with it. At the same time, I think that person deserved a lot worse for bragging about shooting someone to death.

[Losty]

I was caught up, but thanks for assuming I wasn't, you prick.  

Ok, I don't know why you're calling me a prick, but if you're caught up, I don't know how you missed the point the conversation reached, namely is someone racist because they don't agree a person who killed another person who happened to be black deserves to get punched by a stranger after he brags about it in a public place?

I don't think racism has anything to do with it. At the same time, I think that person deserved a lot worse for bragging about shooting someone to death.

I wanted to kudos you but for that bolded part I just can't. The rest I agree with.

[Excited Penguin]

Ok, I don't know why you're calling me a prick, but if you're caught up, I don't know how you missed the point the conversation reached, namely is someone racist because they don't agree a person who killed another person who happened to be black deserves to get punched by a stranger after he brags about it in a public place?

I don't think racism has anything to do with it. At the same time, I think that person deserved a lot worse for bragging about shooting someone to death.

I wanted to kudos you but for that bolded part I just can't. The rest I agree with.

That's great Losty 

[Minimalist]

I guess we will have to disagree about what "an officer is en route" means in this context.

It's meaningless in any context. The police gave no order for Zimmerman to not follow Martin. Zimmerman is and was allowed to walk around that neighborhood, follow people, and challenge them. I believe on the phone call he believed that Martin was a suspect for a burglary that had happened in the neighborhood, and didn't want to lose track of him before the police arrived. Maybe he thought he'd catch him in the act of burglary, who knows.

The point is, nothing Zimmerman did or said he would do on the call is illegal, or was against police orders. The facts are, someone saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him up. Zimmerman sustained multiple injuries consistent with being assaulted.

Oddly, when you go through the trouble of calling 9-1-1 to alert the police it seems more than reasonable to follow their instructions.  I really doubt the dispatcher is trained to say " Thank you for calling 9-1-1 Emergency.... I'm a fucking nobody who just answers the goddamn phone for the real cops." 

Maybe he expected them to tell him to just shoot the sonofabitch?  Hey, its Florida.  Not exactly unprecedented.

[Athene]

Martin actually had a legitimate reason to perceive Zimmerman as a threat. Zimmerman wasn't a police officer; He was a stranger stalking a seventeen-year-old. Trayvon had every right to defend himself  and even "stand his ground" once Zimmerman started approaching him....in theory, of course.

In actuality, there's a belief amongst a certain segment of the population that blacks must automatically defer to to white "authority", regardless of whether or not said authority even actually exists. This idea that blacks who are NOT breaking the law, and simply minding their own business should always be prepared to explain their actions and SUBMIT themselves not only to law enforcement, but to the "authority" of ANY white (or "honorary" white) person who happens to be "concerned" or demanding answers, at any time, for any reason, is about as racist as it gets.

These are likely the same individuals who arrived at the simultaneous conclusions of Martin hitting George Zimmerman as being a brazen act of "nigger" savagery, and Zimmerman shooting Martin as being a tragic, yet unavoidable act of self-defense. To these people, the very notion of a big Black buck feeling threatened and "standing his ground" is just too preposterous to even consider.

[Pat Mustard]

Strange how everyone forgets how Martin was the aggressor and was beating up Zimmerman while Zimmerman lay on the ground. Zimmerman is an asshole, but that doesn't make him a murderer, or deserve to get punched in the face.

I don't believe for a second that Martin initiated the aggression. I don't know if I would consider Zimmerman a murderer. Whether or not he's a murderer is irrelevant to whether he deserves to be punched in the face. It's still a toss up for me. It's not ok to punch someone in the face even if you feel they deserve it though.

I've punched people before, in all cases they've either attacked me or attacked a friend. The most recent time was about 18 months ago when I punched a man at a match in the jaw, mainly to stop him from his then current activity of kicking a teammate of mine who was lying prone on the ground.

There are times when hitting something is the right thing to do. And while I wouldn't necessarily condone somebody punching Zimmerman my repsonse if he complained to me about it post event would be "Awwww, pity about you"

[RobertE]

I didn't forget that, because it's categorically not true. The transcript from the phone call was published, as was the audio. The dispatcher (who by the way, wasn't a police officer) said words to the effect of "we don't need you to do that". That's not an order or even a command, it's more of a suggestion, if that. Zimmerman was perfectly within his rights to be there, and as a neighborhood watchman, to approach and challenge Treyvon Martin.


Wrong again. It's funny how Treyvon Martin's defenders have such bad memories, or at least try to distort the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_o...s_accounts


Bolding mine.

Look, it's terrible that Treyvon Martin wound up dead, but at the same time, the evidence pointed towards Treyvon Martin attacking Zimmerman, and Zimmerman firing his gun in self defence. The injuries that Zimmerman sustained in the attack are well documented.

Yeah, I don't have a terrible memory, I literally read that right before I posted.

What he is seeing there is the middle of a confrontation, not the start of it. So it's totally meaningless as to who started that confrontation. We have nothing but Zimmerman's word on it. We do have some circumstantial evidence though. I think it's a pretty hard sell to say that Martin, who was just walking home, wanted to start a fight that night. Zimmerman on the other hand was unduly following him, thought he was suspicious, has a history of being paranoid That's who I put my money on for starting that fight.  

So exactly like I said, the only witness to the start of the confrontation is Zimmerman. There is no good reason to believe Martin started that fight. Why would he? What makes the most sense to me is that Zimmerman started a fight, was losing and shot him.

Seen any bad youtube videos lately of fights that go wrong?

Once Trayvon Martin got the upperhand in the fight, and it is very possible that Martin got in a lucky punch that dropped Zimmerman, there was no way Martin was going to lose. In fact, if you have seen many youtube videos of fights (not pre-arranged ones) outside nightclubs, on the streets, you can guarantee that the Adrenalin was pumping through Martins veins at that moment when he was continuously punching Zimmerman. I have seen where someone will assume the position where the person with his back on the ground can do absolutely nothing (unless he is an expert in MMA) and then continue to punch until the person is lying unconscious. Further to that, knowing the neighbourhood scene, and having viewed youtube videos, they will almost always get up and swing a couple of kicks to the head and no doubt a couple of stamps on the cranium for good measure, meaning it would have been very possible for Zimmerman to end up as a vegetable for the rest of his life.

---

---

People have never forgotten their instincts to kill or maim. I think Zimmerman was in fear for his life and he only had two choices; take the beating and hopefully come out with a few bruises or perhaps worse, in a coma or even dead, or another option and that was to shoot in self-defence.

[Losty]

I don't believe for a second that Martin initiated the aggression. I don't know if I would consider Zimmerman a murderer. Whether or not he's a murderer is irrelevant to whether he deserves to be punched in the face. It's still a toss up for me. It's not ok to punch someone in the face even if you feel they deserve it though.

I've punched people before, in all cases they've either attacked me or attacked a friend. The most recent time was about 18 months ago when I punched a man at a match in the jaw, mainly to stop him from his then current activity of kicking a teammate of mine who was lying prone on the ground.

There are times when hitting something is the right thing to do. And while I wouldn't necessarily condone somebody punching Zimmerman my repsonse if he complained to me about it post event would be "Awwww, pity about you"

Self defense (which I believe legally includes defense of anyone you know when not using lethal force) is an acceptable reason to punch someone. Thinking they deserve it for whatever reason, is not.

This kind of stuff is really hard for me to wrap my mind around. I hate the word "deserve". I hate that my feelings tell me one thing but my mind tells me another. It's kind of like when a hot young looking chick hits on me and my feelings are like hell yes and my mind is like you better get license, birth certificate, and two references! Lol.

These types of debates leave me spinning inside my own head. I don't know what's right. I don't punching Zimmerman in this case was justified. If it's wrong to hit a person in a certain situation then it's wrong no matter who the person is or what they've done. We aren't savages, we live in a civilized society. We don't enact our own twisted forms of "justice". Why shouldn't I feel bad for him. He's a human person who got punched when he should not have been punched...

[abaris]

There are times when hitting something is the right thing to do. And while I wouldn't necessarily condone somebody punching Zimmerman my repsonse if he complained to me about it post event would be "Awwww, pity about you"

You know, I believe I've hit someone three times in my entire life. Two times as a kid and one time as an adult. In all of these incidences I didn't initiate conflict. The one I remember most clearly was getting back from a night out and stopping at my favorite watering hole to buy some fags before returning home. I opened the door and someone hit me square in the face with a dice board. I kid you not, I saw red in the literal sense of the word. Next thing I know was some of my aquaintances pulling me off that guy. I don't know what I would have done to him otherwise, since I totally lost control. That's why I'm very careful not to get into any scuffle.

I wanted to kudos you but for that bolded part I just can't. The rest I agree with.

I don't think he deserved a lot more than to be punched. But if he bragged about it - and even rednecks sporting confederate tattoos agree on him bragging about it, according to the story - he got what he bargained for. I wouldn't do it, as I said. I would tell him what kind of lowlife he is in my books. But I would certainly be tempted.