Ban the Burkini

[KevinM1]

It's despicable in both directions. Forcing someone into wearing something they don't want to wear. And forcing them to undress. As it happened at Nice these days. That's not what a liberal or secular society is about. Again, in both directions.

I was just about to write something like this.

[Regina]

I agree with promoting counter-narratives to European Muslims and for all religions, actually. France bans all conspicuous religious symbols in public schools including turbans, crucifixes, etc, not just Islamic symbols.

A Muslim swimsuit for a female isn't the same as a hoodie. One can be worn by choice by men or women and one gets forced on to women so they can be "modest". Make no mistake, women are forced by their religious supervisors to cover themselves head to toe and are indoctrinated to believe it is their "choice".

One has to wonder about the Muslim men who live in these beach communites - while they have their women make themselves invisible, do you think they avoid being around women on the beach who are dressed in bikinis and swimwear to preserve their righteousness? Hell no, they're big fat hypocrites!

So I say keep the burkini bans and I hope the whole of France makes it law.

I make absolutely no denial that there are Muslim women forced into modesty, I hope that wasn't how I came across in my earlier post. It is law to wear hijab in some countries and I'm sure plenty of women are made to in the west as well.

But with that said, it's fairly obvious to me when a Muslim woman has chosen to wear hijab, styled herself, put together a look which is still modest but still has individuality;

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I don't think these hijabi women, or women wearing the "Burkini", are really fitting the whole "I was forced to dress like this by my father" narrative, and in their case, why shouldn't they be allowed to express themselves in this way?

As abaris said, it's equally wrong either way. I don't like when women are pressured or forced to dress modestly, or shamed for dressing "immodest". It's also wrong to force women to strip down if they don't want to.

It's about the choice. We're no better than Iran and Saudi Arabia if we stoop to their level of introducing a certain dress code that people have to follow.

We can discourage the ideas around female repression and sexual modesty sure, but we can't literally force people. It's not going to encourage people to see it the way we do. I think only after (like I said earlier) we encourage different narratives for European Muslims, promote secularism over segregated religious laws, and do away with religious identity politics, maybe then we'll start to see ideas like the hijab being discarded in a more natural and organic way.

[Jesster]

[abaris]

We can discourage the ideas around female repression and sexual modesty sure, but we can't literally force people. It's not going to encourage people to see it the way we do.

It's on the same lines as the constant qustions on how can I deconvert X or Y? How can I pull this or that relative or friend away from religion? The answer's always the same. If you try to shove something down their throats, a video, a story or anything along these lines, they just will get defensive and feel their faith threatened and get all the more firm in their believes.

Same with these women. Apart from the degrading aspect of forcing them into revealing themselves in public, it will make them defensive. That's even true for someone who didn't originally make the choice of dressing that way. It will be a shameful and degrading moment. And very much on the same lines as the ones originally forcing them into that dress code. It's done by force, and even more importantly, in public by the authorities.

I encourage everyone to try to swap religions for a moment. What would be the public reaction to forcing orthodox jews into doing it? Their number is smaller but I'm willing to bet you anything that the percentage of them being coerced into the dress code is on the same level.

[Seraphina]

When in Rome, do as the Romans. If you want to enjoy a public beach with most everyone around you wearing swimsuits and scanty clothing in the sunshine and surf (don't forget your sunscreen!) why not do the same? Muslim men do but their women can't. It's a double standard purely based on an archaic religion.

Also, am I being an immodest and tempting infidel by wearing a beach swimsuit instead of covering myself from head to toe? I don't think so, but Muslims who believe in covering their women up say different.

[abaris]

When in Rome, do as the Romans.

Does that apply for them too? You think the cops would rip their cloths off or ask them to leave



Or them maybe?



She would be perfect, wouldn't she?



Them too. Covering much too much when in Rome.

[Seraphina]

The Amish woman, abaris, are showing skin and their hair -totally not allowed by devout Muslims who cover up their women from head to toe.
For the nuns and the Jews, please point to the men supervising them while wearing Speedos and sandals. I don't see any, do you? So I'm calling strawman.

[ScienceAf]

Quite surprised this hasn't been posted yet

Cannes bans burkinis over suspected link to radical Islamism - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37056742

I feel this is slightly different to the burka ban debate (despite the name burkini the face is not covered), and it seems the only reason for the ban is because it is 'islamic' the article says that other religious symbols are not banned (skullcaps, crucifix etc).

So, while I generally support a ban on burkas, as the face s covered, I don't support the ban on burkinis. Thoughts?

If they wanna wear what ever let them do so. Let these sheeple believe in false hope.

[Minimalist]

Did they really think there could be terrorist attack after attack without the French getting pissed off?  When people get pissed they often do not react in rational ways.  In the US, for example, we attack the wrong country and spend ourselves in bankruptcy.

This is just France's emotional way of saying "fuck your bullshit religion."  What comes next will be worse.

[Jesster]

When in Rome, do as the Romans.

And this is why I said before that people should be encouraged rather than forced. "When it Rome, do as the Romans" will get you more social acceptance, but it shouldn't be law.