Ban the Burkini

[LadyForCamus]

Plus, what if they really really need a burkini for the rest of our sakes. There are some things you can't unsee. hehehehe

OMFG, haha. If it's THAT bad from the back, just imagine the horror show going on in the FRONT!

[Anomalocaris]

Quite surprised this hasn't been posted yet

Cannes bans burkinis over suspected link to radical Islamism - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37056742

I feel this is slightly different to the burka ban debate (despite the name burkini the face is not covered), and it seems the only reason for the ban is because it is 'islamic' the article says that other religious symbols are not banned (skullcaps, crucifix etc).

So, while I generally support a ban on burkas, as the face s covered, I don't support the ban on burkinis. Thoughts?

Burkini resembles a wet suit.   What if a Muslim woman chooses to wear a wetsuit to respect her Muslim faith because Burkini is banned. Should she be prohibited from hearing a wetsuit as well?

[LadyForCamus]

It's fine with me if governments ban Muslim-approved swimwear on public beaches.
Western women who visit Muslim countries are made to cover their female bodies and hair while in public.
When in Rome, do as the Romans.

I also find it odd that you'll see women wearing attire that completely covers their "tempting" female bodies while they're accompanied by men who wear whatever the hell they want.

Nah, I'm good with banning burqa swimsuits.

So...because as women we would be unfairly subjugated and censored if we were to visit Muslim countries, we should turn around and treat Muslim women the same way here? Is that what you're saying? I find that a rather juvenile and counter-productive position to hold, personally...[emoji53]

[Anomalocaris]

It's fine with me if governments ban Muslim-approved swimwear on public beaches.
Western women who visit Muslim countries are made to cover their female bodies and hair while in public.
When in Rome, do as the Romans.

I also find it odd that you'll see women wearing attire that completely covers their "tempting" female bodies while they're accompanied by men who wear whatever the hell they want.

Nah, I'm good with banning burqa swimsuits.

So...because as women we would be unfairly subjugated and censored if we were to visit Muslim countries, we should turn around and treat Muslim women the same way here?  Is that what you're saying?  I find that a rather juvenile position to hold, personally...[emoji53]

Perhaps as sovereign states, France as has as much right to, and as long a hallowed tradition of, hypocrisy as fundamentalist Muslim states have rights to and tradition of oppression.

[abaris]

I think as sovereign states, France has a right to contradict her own stated secular principles and make a mockery of what she claims to cherish, however honorable those secular principles are; just as Islamic countries have a right to follow their own religious principles, however repugnant those religious principle are.

Come again if they force nuns and orthodox jews into undressing in public on the beach. Until they do that you might want to spend a little more brainpower on what this is about. Hint, it's not the secular nature of the country.

Apart from, as I already said, that the courts has already overturned the decision.

[Anomalocaris]

I think as sovereign states, France has a right to contradict her own stated secular principles and make a mockery of what she claims to cherish, however honorable those secular principles are; just as Islamic countries have a right to follow their own religious principles, however repugnant those religious principle are.

Come again if they force nuns and orthodox jews into undressing in public on the beach. Until they do that you might want to spend a little more brainpower on what this is about. Hint, it's not the secular nature of the country.

Apart from, as I already said, that the courts has already overturned the decision.

Equality before the law, Freedom of religion and freedom of expression are secular principles.

[abaris]

Freedom of religion and freedom of expression are secular principles.

And freedom of expression ends where exactly? At a dress code?

[Anomalocaris]

Freedom of religion and freedom of expression are secular principles.

And freedom of expression ends where exactly? At a dress code?

Where it ends is irrelevant to the issue.  Whether it is considered acceptable to have it end at a different place for one group than others is the crux.

[abaris]

Where it ends is irrelevant to the issue.  Whether it is preferentially applied, and considered less applicable to some group than others, is the crux.

And that's where you're fundamentally wrong. What about transgender people? I met one at a sub station. All dressed up like a girl. If asked a considerable part of the population would ban that too. You don't draw the line at dress codes if you are about secularism and freedom of expression. You draw the one and only line at hurting others.

[Anomalocaris]

Where it ends is irrelevant to the issue.  Whether it is preferentially applied, and considered less applicable to some group than others, is the crux.

And that's where you're fundamentally wrong. What about transgender people? I met one at a sub station. All dressed up like a girl. If asked a considerable part of the population would ban that too. You don't draw the line at dress codes if you are about secularism and freedom of expression. You draw the one and only line at hurting others.

And who are you to say I am wrong and you are the arbiter of rightness?  Whether there should be a dress code can be regarded as a matter of opinion.  Whether the dress code can allowably be so designed as to preferential infringe on the expression of one group vs all others is a much deeper issue fundamental to how laws can be constructed.