Sexism/feminism: what's your reaction to this song?

[Whateverist]

Her song is valid, at the end of the day she has the right to express herself and how she feels however she wants to (short of inciting violence or hatred)

Some people might think it's petty (I'm inclined to think it's slightly petty, although not to a degree where it really bothers me) but she still has the right to say how she feels.

I agree with Yeaux. On top of it, her lyrics are, "don't call *me*..." not "don't call *women*..."

She seems to be referring to a specific person, so I'm not really sure what the song has to do with feminism.

Yeah it isn't obliquely making a political stance.  But I figured it would rub a few the wrong way and give me another chance to understand the current anti-feminism I frequently see come up in atheist circles.  (Maybe it comes up everywhere but I just hang out in atheist circles?)  Certainly there has been enough progress made that a shrill feminist is not likely to get a lot of support.  Never cared for the shrill ones personally anyway.  Anyone remember Andrea Dworkin?  *shudders*

[Jesster]

I agree with Yeaux. On top of it, her lyrics are, "don't call *me*..." not "don't call *women*..."

She seems to be referring to a specific person, so I'm not really sure what the song has to do with feminism.

Yeah it isn't obliquely making a political stance.  But I figured it would rub a few the wrong way and give me another chance to understand the current anti-feminism I frequently see come up in atheist circles.  (Maybe it comes up everywhere but I just hang out in atheist circles?)  Certainly there has been enough progress made that a shrill feminist is not likely to get a lot of support.  Never cared for the shrill ones personally anyway.  Anyone remember Andrea Dworkin?  *shudders*

Oh trust me. Feminism isn't too popular among theists either. Abrahamic religions especially dislike it because their holy books love to dump all over women.

Also, yeah, I'm not very fond of Andrea Dworkin. Even though I'm not really into it, I see nothing wrong with porn.

[Whateverist]

I'm gunna jump in with my opinion and answer to the poll (I picked the rant away which oh I will lol) before I back read 8 pages.

I know I'm in a good country where being a woman isn't a disadvantage so I'm not going to speak for the countries where there really is oppression for the female gender. But here in the US in every day life I have rarely seen sexism toward women. I've seen it much more toward guys.

The whole don't call me honey is ridiculous to me living in the south. I'm a female and I call everyone sweetie, honey, darlin, etc. I've been called these things as well my whole life by both family members and complete strangers. A lady can say "hey honey can you grab that off the top shelf for me?" To my fiancé with me standing right there and I will think nothing of it. At work the old men call me darlin when they say hello and I don't even notice. I understand people outside the southern American states don't grow up with that like I did but really getting mad over it seems childish.

I have two jobs and in both of them my boss is a female. My mother was in the army and was never told she couldn't do anything. She had been to Panama (in the 80s), Korea, and Iraq all before I graduated high school. Having a family or being female didn't keep her from going to war. I know so many females in high power roles and I've never been paid less than my male coworkers if we were the same level job description.

Women can dress in guys clothing, they can be workaholics, they can stay home with the babies, they can do almost anything now.

Men get less parental rights during a divorce simply for being a man, they can't wear girl stuff without being 'gay', they can't be sensitive or emotional without looking less of a man.

I don't like heels, fake nails, or make up but that's ok. Tony doesn't like football and he gets mocked. I'm not saying that girls don't need equality because we do but we sure as hell don't need to be superior to males because of our gender. You don't get the chivalry and the leave me alone I can do it myself. I personally like being treated nice.  I like the door being held open for me but I will also turn around and hold it for the next person behind me regardless of gender. We need equality of BOTH genders not feminism.

All this shit going on and she gets mad over being called honey? Man don't come to Texas cause we as sure as fuck ain't giving up our manners and charm because you want to be an ass.

Context and setting matter .. a lot.  That's your home turf and you're entitled to like it the way it is if you do.  I'm such a chameleon in my speech patterns I'd probably pick it up if I was there any length of time.  

Interesting to me that in that setting you're finding easy acceptance for leaving off make up.  My wife used a little when we met but stopped happily when I expressed that preference.  Never liked the feel, smell or taste of any of it.  Though I did have a girlfriend for whom it was very important.  I just accepted it as a cultural difference.  She was so smart and open conversationally that I was never tempted to speak up against it.  But then we never got close to getting married so who knows if I'd have tried to get that concession if we had.

Thanks for the responses everyone.  This goes toward one of my long time interests - puzzling over the difference between the sexes.

[The Grand Nudger]

Thanks for the responses everyone.  This goes toward one of my long time interests - puzzling over the difference between the sexes.

If you don't know by now....lol  

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbaSh8i5eyE

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[Thumpalumpacus]

I think he's talking about America, Arky.

Ah so whites have some advantage in a culture founded and composed mostly by whites?  Surely there are some governmental programs I can get assistance from, just for being a white person...and where's my White Entertainment Channel?

We'll ignore the fact that your argument is based on a strawman for now. The assumption that privilege and advantage can only be granted by the government is not only an oversimplification of the way societies operate, it demonstrates a deep lack of understanding about American history ... and current events. You don't need to ask me. Just ask blacks who have been denied housing because of their skin color. Perhaps you should ask blacks who've been passed over for jobs on that basis. I'm assuming you have that one black "friend" who loves you who can help you out with this sort of thing.

Surely there must also be "black" privilege in Africa, "yellow" privilege in China and "whiter than everyone" privilege in Japan?

I don't know. I've never been to those places. I'm not in the habit of generalizing from particulars. I regard such a practice as sloppy thinking and avoid it. You should, too.

[Thumpalumpacus]

All this shit going on and she gets mad over being called honey? Man don't come to Texas cause we as sure as fuck ain't giving up our manners and charm because you want to be an ass.

Hear, hear! Well-said, sweetheart.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, I was reading some of the earlier comments about -why- some people took offense to what I see as southern cultural idioms...one of them being that a person didn't need to be reminded of their "mate-ability" or some such, by being called honey. I call my children honey (and sweetheart, and sugar, and pumpkin, etc etc etc) ya sick fucks. We're extending a term of endearment...because were...you know...nice people.......? It means the same thing as buddy, friend, family; that's the mechanical translation from rebel to yank. It's not always about your vagina, some of us aren't interested.

[mlmooney89]

Yeah, I was reading some of the earlier comments about -why- some people took offense to what I see as southern cultural idioms...one of them being that a person didn't need to be reminded of their "mate-ability" or some such, by being called honey. I call my children honey (and sweetheart, and sugar, and pumpkin, etc etc etc) ya sick fucks. We're extending a term of endearment...because were...you know...nice people.......? It means the same thing as buddy, friend, family; that's the mechanical translation from rebel to yank. It's not always about your vagina, some of us aren't interested.

Bahaha for real! They think they are some kinda special. They would prolly take it as a compliment if a southerner said "oh bless your heart" regardless of the intended insult we use it as.

[bennyboy]

I didn't find her very charismatic. The music was a little self-indulgent and had a forced feeling to me. It's not such much the lyrics or the content, though-- those were okay I guess.

Actually, on second thought, I didn't care for the lyrics. They were too much-- no wit, just an angrily-written napkin note with music.

--edit--
Actually, the cello solo was pretty hot, especially at the end. Maybe I'm just a sexist pig, though-- I find her grating and annoying. Probably because I'm a man and she's an uppity broad.

[Rev. Rye]

Surely there must also be "black" privilege in Africa, "yellow" privilege in China and "whiter than everyone" privilege in Japan?

I don't know. I've never been to those places. I'm not in the habit of generalizing from particulars. I regard such a practice as sloppy thinking and avoid it. You should, too.

Odds are, privilege would be based more on the various ethnic groups that most of us can barely tell the difference between (and which ones got the guns, see the Rwandan genocide) than on the largely arbitrary racial aggregates we Westerners decided to use.

* Africa has over 3000 different ethnic groups (not even including the white people who decided to jump in) and some have more power in different parts than others.
* I remember reading in a sociology class that China has 55 different major ethnic groups, and the average Chinese person can tell the difference between them with as much accuracy as we do for our handful of racial aggregates.
* Japan seems to be remarkably ethnically homogenous, with 98.5% being Japanese (it should be noted that Japan does not really see much of a difference between nationality, ethnicity, and race). There's still quite a few immigrants, and I don't have a lot of information on what they suffer, though I do know that the people tend to not be very big on immigration. It's also worth mentioning the Ainu: the indigenous people of Hokkaido, who had a non-negligible amount of Siberian ancestry (and looking at the beards of some of their men, it really shows. I have to admit, I have not seen beards that impressive on any other Asian men). They might not pass for white in America, but they're a lot whiter than the average Japanese; and given that their history has a remarkable parallel with those of the American Indian, it's safe to say Japan doesn't have "whiter than everyone else" privilege.

Ethnic Privilege in situations where we haven't decided beforehand who belongs in what arbitrary aggregate and who gets what can get extremely complicated is all I'm saying.