Anyone want to read and discuss "The Origin of Consc in the Breakdown of the B Mind ?

[Whateverist]

The time period necessary did strike me as surprising too when I read about it on wikipedia. In general I expect to find gradual change over time, not something clicked into an on position all at once and fully.

Elsewhere you wrote of consciousness arising in response to prey/predator relationships. At the point at which anticipating the activity of a creature that may be anticipating what you are up to, and how your own activity may be perceived seems a likely point for more self consciousness to arise. I mean, clearly, consciousness is there way back. But self conscious reflection wouldn't likely arise without need.

BTW I ordered my copy and am assured it will arrive between this Friday and October 11.

[Whateverist]

My copy of the book arrived but I've been delinquent in getting into it.  

Just this morning I finished off chapter one, "Consciousness of Consciousness" which ticks off a great number of things which consciousness is not.  I've started to read the next one but it occurs to me that I should probably say directly for myself what it is which I think consciousness might be.  As Blake more or less said, "I must create a system or risk being enslaved by that of another."

Funny the first thing I do is stand back and wait for it, whatever it is consciousness might be, to announce itself.  In so doing I imagine a stage or a clearing where things appear and stuff happens.  My first hunch is that consciousness is the audience to that which appears and what happens.  But then immediately I have the doubt it may be more the clearing itself.  Maybe it's both.  It doesn't seem as likely that it is what appears on the stage or what it does there, that is what consciousness is of or about.  

One thing seems clear: how one feels or thinks about what goes on on that stage is still more of what consciousness is of/about - not consciousness itself.  Part of what it is we become conscious of is our inner response to events.  Consciousness seems more to do with the noticing/witnessing of both what happens in the world and how that affects us inwardly.  We notice the emotions elicited, the agreeability (or not) of that experience, and possibly our level of concern (or not) about it.  Maybe consciousness is in the awareness of what we perceive and how that affects us .. whatever to hell that means.  

Pretty murky stuff.  Very hard to say what exactly Consciousness is.  Guess I'll go see what this guy does with it.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Pretty murky stuff.  Very hard to say what exactly Consciousness is.  Guess I'll go see what this guy does with it.

Please keep us apprised of your insights.

[Arkilogue]

Is consciousness the reflective membrane/capacity of the self or the light of information it reflects?

Perhaps they are mutually dependent and simultaneously arising.

[Whateverist]

I just read a couple more chapters and am more jazzed about the book now. I bogged down in the chapter centered on the Illiad. I wonder how many other people bailed on the book at that point? Seems a shame to have given such a prominent position in a theory in which the literature hypothesis seems to me to be so peripheral. Cool beans. Think I'll read some more and try to get clearer on what this guy thinks vs what I think he should be claiming.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Did you get to the part about swimming yet?

[Whateverist]

No, no swimming but lots of brain physiology. (Turns out you were right about the radio receiver in a way.)