Victim Blaming?

[Excited Penguin]

No worries, Ark.  I understand your meaning.  Personal responsibility is a real thing.  I don't think any woman, or any reasonable person for that matter, would argue against it.  Acknowledging the consequences of our actions is how we learn.  People who refuse to own their mistakes typically go on to make similar types of mistakes over and over, which is not a very effective way to go through life.  My point (that Tibs did such a good job describing) is that saying, "wow, you really shouldn't have done that," AFTER the lousy decision has already been made doesn't accomplish anything.  My answer to that would be, "Well no shit, Sherlock!  A lot of good that does me now!"  

I grew up a fairly sheltered and naive young lady in a safe, cozy town with a loving family.  As a result, most of the tough lessons in life have had to be slapped into me pretty hard.  [emoji57]

How has that been?  As in, how abrupt was the sea change in perception any time a life lesson had to slap you properly in the face due to your advantaged upbringing?  What does that -feel- like?

No one in this entire thread has said that it's an "awful thing" to educate young women on how to stay safe, including drinking responsibly.

Hmn?  Well...I'll say it. Let women make terrible, terrible alcohol related "mistakes".  It's good for them, it's good for everybody, lol.

Not sure if good or bad.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

This site is 8 years old, but the original community is from an older site atheistforum.com (not related to atheistforums.com). I was the head admin and co-creator of atheistforum.com along with a casual acquaintance who owned the domain and handled the server side of things. Long story short, one day the admin control area stopped working, and when I emailed my acquaintance to get it fixed, he bluntly told me that he sold the site to someone.

Anyway, the community didn't want to stay on a site which we couldn't control properly, so we all collectively abandoned ship and I set up atheistforums.org.

So yeah there was a kind of falling out, but not between us and one of the more popular sites. Also, back then, there weren't as many atheist forums out there.

I've read atheistforums.com a few times, they were even talking about trying to buy this place out. Not entirely sure if they were serious or not. Anyway, thanks for the response.  

I spent about 4 years there, became a very regular member and had a great time. Then the server went down after Reggie (the owner) to up and sell Wolf and the community bought it, but it was about a month later and I'd already joined here. Wolf did a great job keeping it up though, as did the guys and girls who contributed to the domain purchase and server costs.

I lurk there quite often but don't really post any more. The community changed from the one I was apart of, this one felt more like home.

[Catholic_Lady]

Can we as a society stop pretending that saying "You shouldn't get blackout wasted." is somehow victim blaming? I'm not saying if you get totally smashed you getting raped is your fault. However going out and getting blackout drunk does put yourself at risk. And not drinking to excess does minimize risk if you're aware of what's going on around you. That being said rape is no one's fault but the rapist. But let's stop pretending that telling people to drink responsibly is this awful thing.

I agree completely, Quill. 

It's like saying we shouldn't tell people to lock their doors at night lest we be blaming them for getting robbed.

[Whateverist]

Two separate issues are becoming more distinct now.

1) Does careless behavior leave you open to harm or loss? Answer: Of course.

2) At what point does a woman's degree of recklessness entitle a man to rape her? Answer: Never.

[Jackalope]

Two separate issues are becoming more distinct now.

1)  Does careless behavior leave you open to harm or loss?  Answer:  Of course.

2)  At what point does a woman's degree of recklessness entitle a man to rape her?  Answer:  Never.

Absolutely they are. The issues arise when an attempt to conflate the two happens

[RobertE]

I've been meaning to ask this, what made you want to set up AF? I mean there's already a couple of atheist-orientated forums out there from what I have seen.

Did you fall out with management on the other sites or something?

This site is 8 years old, but the original community is from an older site atheistforum.com (not related to atheistforums.com). I was the head admin and co-creator of atheistforum.com along with a casual acquaintance who owned the domain and handled the server side of things. Long story short, one day the admin control area stopped working, and when I emailed my acquaintance to get it fixed, he bluntly told me that he sold the site to someone.

Anyway, the community didn't want to stay on a site which we couldn't control properly, so we all collectively abandoned ship and I set up atheistforums.org.

So yeah there was a kind of falling out, but not between us and one of the more popular sites. Also, back then, there weren't as many atheist forums out there.

It is quite old indeed:

https://web.archive.org/web/200601310852...forum.com/

[LadyForCamus]

How has that been?  As in, how abrupt was the sea change in perception any time a life lesson had to slap you properly in the face due to your advantaged upbringing?  What does that -feel- like?

It feels shameful and embarrassing every time. It took a few (too many) nasty lessons for the 'sea change' to stick; for me to accept the reality that love and protection in childhood doesn't equal a charmed life, and that I can't just blindly trust the world to make sure I'm always okay regardless of my choices. It's embarrassing frankly, to realize you're still living life with that attitude in your 20's. And, because I think knew deep down exactly what I was doing, and KEPT doing it until something finally bit me in the ass.

The incident I mentioned in this thread is a perfect example of the way I floated through my life as only a passive participant most of the time without ever meaningfully considering that my decisions can have actual, harmful consequences. Pathetic for an adult woman to have to admit such a thing. There is an expected degree of shame that comes along with sexual assault by its nature, and then there's the shame and self-loathing that came when I had to look myself in the mirror and ask, "why do I keep behaving like the universe thinks I'm special?"

[The Grand Nudger]

How has that been?  As in, how abrupt was the sea change in perception any time a life lesson had to slap you properly in the face due to your advantaged upbringing?  What does that -feel- like?

It feels shameful and embarrassing every time.  It took a few (too many) nasty lessons for the 'sea change' to stick; for me to accept the reality that love and protection in childhood doesn't equal a charmed life, and that I can't just blindly trust the world to make sure I'm always okay regardless of my choices.  It's embarrassing frankly, to realize you're still living life with that attitude in your 20's.  And, because I think knew deep down exactly what I was doing, and KEPT doing it until something finally bit me in the ass.

The incident I mentioned in this thread is a perfect example of the way I floated through my life as only a passive participant most of the time without ever meaningfully considering that my decisions can have actual, harmful consequences.  Pathetic for an adult woman to have to admit such a thing.  There is an expected degree of shame that comes along with sexual assault by its nature, and then there's the shame and self-loathing that came when I had to look myself in the mirror and ask, "why do I keep behaving like the universe thinks I'm special?"

Ouch.  Don;t be so hard on yourself though.  That sort of behavior isn't unique to you by a long shot.  We all suffer our own private shame and indignity apart from each other...at least tacitly thinking that somebody out there is "getting it right" or not agonizing over the very same things as they see them.  I mean, I;m right there with you, I can answer the question in my case "why do I keep acting this way" - because I'm a moron, two hairs away from a chimp on a good day....and right behind that, because I'm stubborn, particularly so in the case of continuing to act like I always have and as I just described, lol.  

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yep, nary a one of us who hasn't made bad decisions and then reaped the bitter fruit.

[LadyForCamus]

It feels shameful and embarrassing every time.  It took a few (too many) nasty lessons for the 'sea change' to stick; for me to accept the reality that love and protection in childhood doesn't equal a charmed life, and that I can't just blindly trust the world to make sure I'm always okay regardless of my choices.  It's embarrassing frankly, to realize you're still living life with that attitude in your 20's.  And, because I think knew deep down exactly what I was doing, and KEPT doing it until something finally bit me in the ass.

The incident I mentioned in this thread is a perfect example of the way I floated through my life as only a passive participant most of the time without ever meaningfully considering that my decisions can have actual, harmful consequences.  Pathetic for an adult woman to have to admit such a thing.  There is an expected degree of shame that comes along with sexual assault by its nature, and then there's the shame and self-loathing that came when I had to look myself in the mirror and ask, "why do I keep behaving like the universe thinks I'm special?"

Ouch.  Don;t be so hard on yourself though.  That sort of behavior isn't unique to you by a long shot.  We all suffer our own private shame and indignity apart from each other...at least tacitly thinking that somebody out there is "getting it right" or not agonizing over the very same things as they see them.  I mean, I;m right there with you, I can answer the question in my case "why do I keep acting this way" - because I'm a moron, two hairs away from a chimp on a good day....and right behind that, because I'm stubborn, particularly so in the case of continuing to act like I always have and as I just described, lol.  

I know that you're right. [emoji41] We're all pretty much two hairs away from a chimp on a good day, so I guess there's an element of comfort in acknowledging that.

I don't know about you, but I have found having children to be very sobering. Before, I never worried about anything. Now I constantly worry about EVERYTHING! I basically operate under the assumption that any unfamiliar person with a penis who so much as breathes hot air in my son's general direction is a child molester, lol.