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First of all where is in the bible said that we should not take its words literal? Or where did you get this authority?
Second, Why god sent something that much vague to people? Didn't he knew that people "might" misunderstood him for 2000 years (and counting for some)?
Third, why did he send it as figure of speech? We are capable of(and better at) understanding literal commands either. Wouldn't it be more effective? Did god likes mind games?
Fourth, what will happen to people (like me) who would get the wrong message?
Fifth, why does this illiteral stories such as noah's ark, book of job or story of lot constantly had to include blood and violence? Wouldn't that give the impression of "god loves violence and we should kill people for him?" I think bugs bunny style stories would be better...(Wabbits!)
Sixth, Is hell illiteral too? What will happen to innocent unbelievers? Are they going to be tortured enternally?
And the last, can you give reasonable answers to those questions above?
To answer the OP only
1- Romans 2:14-15. I take the figurative verses figuratively nad the literal literally. I use common sense, reason, logic, conscience and continul reflection to delineate between the 2.
2- He did, Moses destroyed them. Everythingsince has been man's interpretation some inspired by God some inspired by selfish desires.
3-See 2
4-If you dismiss revelations from God or deny the Holy spirit (or it's works in your life) then you are seperating yourself from God's will.
5-If taken literally yes I agree it would
6- yes to the first part. No to the eternal suffering. The Bible clearly states that God can destroy the soul in hell. Elsewhere it states that a soul will burn (thus being destroyed) in everlasting fire.
7- I think I did
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
(September 11, 2010 at 8:15 am)DoodleBag Wrote: The bible IS literal! That's like saying God isn't true, he's only a metaphor. It's historical facts people.
I know... So I laugh at your god and flip him the bird and taunt him while I ride around in my Chariot of Iron....
Did I make a good point? thumbs up I cant help it I'm a Kudos whore. P.S. Jesus is a MYTH.
September 13, 2010 at 7:00 pm (This post was last modified: September 13, 2010 at 7:29 pm by annatar.)
(September 11, 2010 at 1:48 pm)tackattack Wrote:
(August 29, 2010 at 2:02 am)annatar Wrote:
I have few questions to you,
First of all where is in the bible said that we should not take its words literal? Or where did you get this authority?
Second, Why god sent something that much vague to people? Didn't he knew that people "might" misunderstood him for 2000 years (and counting for some)?
Third, why did he send it as figure of speech? We are capable of(and better at) understanding literal commands either. Wouldn't it be more effective? Did god likes mind games?
Fourth, what will happen to people (like me) who would get the wrong message?
Fifth, why does this illiteral stories such as noah's ark, book of job or story of lot constantly had to include blood and violence? Wouldn't that give the impression of "god loves violence and we should kill people for him?" I think bugs bunny style stories would be better...(Wabbits!)
Sixth, Is hell illiteral too? What will happen to innocent unbelievers? Are they going to be tortured enternally?
And the last, can you give reasonable answers to those questions above?
To answer the OP only
1- Romans 2:14-15. I take the figurative verses figuratively nad the literal literally. I use common sense, reason, logic, conscience and continul reflection to delineate between the 2.
2- He did, Moses destroyed them. Everythingsince has been man's interpretation some inspired by God some inspired by selfish desires.
3-See 2
4-If you dismiss revelations from God or deny the Holy spirit (or it's works in your life) then you are seperating yourself from God's will.
5-If taken literally yes I agree it would
6- yes to the first part. No to the eternal suffering. The Bible clearly states that God can destroy the soul in hell. Elsewhere it states that a soul will burn (thus being destroyed) in everlasting fire.
7- I think I did
To answer 1: If you use common sense, reason, logic or conscience you cant possibly explain or justify events like story of job or noah's ark. What you do is accepting bible is certainly true and making the most unlike interpretations to justify it.
To answer 2/3: So he can send something literally.. then why he didn't just send it again?? Actually you believe he came here(jesus)... Why he didnt write all his commands clearly when he was here???
And why did moses destroyed the first one?!? only response to that is: WTF!
To answer 4: No I dont dismiss the revelations I just misunderstand them... I gave an example of a knight from the middle age to fr0d0.
To answer 5:
I Wrote:lets say I am a boss,
I want my employes to produce pen. But I am telling only to one of my employe: "make me something mightier than sword ". So they are producing Shotguns. Is it my fault or theirs???
To answer 6: Will it be painful or not??
To answer 7: I don't think so...
Quote:Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.
(August 29, 2010 at 2:02 am)annatar Wrote: I have few questions to you,
First of all where is in the bible said that we should not take its words literal? Or where did you get this authority?
Second, Why god sent something that much vague to people? Didn't he knew that people "might" misunderstood him for 2000 years (and counting for some)?
Third, why did he send it as figure of speech? We are capable of(and better at) understanding literal commands either. Wouldn't it be more effective? Did god likes mind games?
Fourth, what will happen to people (like me) who would get the wrong message?
Fifth, why does this illiteral stories such as noah's ark, book of job or story of lot constantly had to include blood and violence? Wouldn't that give the impression of "god loves violence and we should kill people for him?" I think bugs bunny style stories would be better...(Wabbits!)
Sixth, Is hell illiteral too? What will happen to innocent unbelievers? Are they going to be tortured enternally?
And the last, can you give reasonable answers to those questions above?
To answer the OP only
1- Romans 2:14-15. I take the figurative verses figuratively nad the literal literally. I use common sense, reason, logic, conscience and continul reflection to delineate between the 2.
2- He did, Moses destroyed them. Everythingsince has been man's interpretation some inspired by God some inspired by selfish desires.
3-See 2
4-If you dismiss revelations from God or deny the Holy spirit (or it's works in your life) then you are seperating yourself from God's will.
5-If taken literally yes I agree it would
6- yes to the first part. No to the eternal suffering. The Bible clearly states that God can destroy the soul in hell. Elsewhere it states that a soul will burn (thus being destroyed) in everlasting fire.
7- I think I did
To answer 1: If you use common sense, reason, logic or conscience you cant possibly explain or justify events like story of job or noah's ark. What you do is accepting bible is certainly true and making the most unlike interpretations to justify it.
To answer 2/3: So he can send something literally.. then why he didn't just send it again?? Actually you believe he came here(jesus)... Why he didnt write all his commands clearly when he was here???
And why did moses destroyed the first one?!? only response to that is: WTF!
To answer 4: No I dont dismiss the revelations I just misunderstand them... I gave an example of a knight from the middle age to fr0d0.
To answer 5:
I Wrote:lets say I am a boss,
I want my employes to produce pen. But I am telling only to one of my employe: "make me something mightier than sword ". So they are producing Shotguns. Is it my fault or theirs???
To answer 6: Will it be painful or not??
To answer 7: I don't think so...
1-No I take the events depicted as true and read it with an open mind and heart. I try and read it like a police report with various witness accounts about the same event. You have to take into account their societal, technological, and rational development and mental state (read in context) then sort though the human and subjective bias (depersonalize) as best you can. I try not to rationalize anything or jump to any conclusions. I think I have a fairly standard Christian view of the Bible and they are neither the most unlikely or irrational.
2/3-Why would a diety ever see need to repeat his covenants? Despite the fact he took the time to dictate a second set to Moses. I'm not aware of Jesus writing anything or commanding anything to be written. As for why did Moses, idk.. I have a whole bunch of WTF for him as well. Biblically according to the story he came down saw the partying and worshiping a false idol and threw down the stones and then started an internal war, destroyed the idol, chastised the people then went for atonement.
4- I wasn't speaking specifically of you being dismissive, just a general statement. If you don't dismiss evidence just misunderstand.. idk what will happen. Is it your fault for not getting clear info, no I don't think so.I guess the question would then become did you use enough effort to try and get it straight or just give it up?
5- But God is a personal God, not just the God who visited Moses or Abraham. If you told all of your millions of employees that the pen is mightier than the sword in a memo and then told one to build something mightier than the sword, wouldn't you expect a pen? I'm a big proponent of personal accountability so I'd say it's the individual's responsibility for what they produce. Misguided instructions are no excuse for not using common sense, conscience, and rationality (and the Holy Spirit in Christian cases).
6-IDK, but if you're talking about a non-physical body experiencing pain.. it doesn't seem to make sense that it would be anything remotely close to physical pain. However the Bible does say there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, which seems indicative as more of an emotional anguish and pain than a physical.
7-You're going to have to be specific on what exactly is being unreasonable if you're going to make such bald personal assertions.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
September 14, 2010 at 12:06 pm (This post was last modified: September 14, 2010 at 9:04 pm by annatar.)
(September 14, 2010 at 5:43 am)tackattack Wrote: 1-No I take the events depicted as true and read it with an open mind and heart. I try and read it like a police report with various witness accounts about the same event. You have to take into account their societal, technological, and rational development and mental state (read in context) then sort though the human and subjective bias (depersonalize) as best you can. I try not to rationalize anything or jump to any conclusions. I think I have a fairly standard Christian view of the Bible and they are neither the most unlikely or irrational.
So events are true and really happened? Can you please explain to me the event mentioned in exodus 31?
Or book of job? or noahs ark?
killing every soul for the sins of some people? Including babies... And what kind of sins are they?? worshiping false gods, adultery, homosexuality. Yes these are in the god's black list.
But same god allows these actions. No not just allows them he commands these actions...
"Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Dont tell me context is different! exodus 31 contains more violence than any verse in quran...
And what kind of inspector looks at these events and tells "yea but the one who did these things is actually a good person"
And what about Job? What was his fault anyway? Loving god so much???
It would be a long list if we had criticized bible sentence and sentence..
Quote:2/3-Why would a diety ever see need to repeat his covenants? Despite the fact he took the time to dictate a second set to Moses. I'm not aware of Jesus writing anything or commanding anything to be written. As for why did Moses, idk.. I have a whole bunch of WTF for him as well. Biblically according to the story he came down saw the partying and worshiping a false idol and threw down the stones and then started an internal war, destroyed the idol, chastised the people then went for atonement.
I dont know maybe becouse his first one is destroyed???
But according to bible Moses was a good guy right? If he is the most trusted guy of the god then his actions confirmed by god. Questioning Moses is like questioning god. So your bunch of WTF is for to your god aswell.
But my point was If he can send his commands why he didn't just send it clearly and in a way that everyone in the world can reach? Why did he send it to a man who lives in a little tribe knowing that it will be destroyed(all knowing) Instead of sending it to the whole world?(all powerful)
Quote:4- I wasn't speaking specifically of you being dismissive, just a general statement. If you don't dismiss evidence just misunderstand.. idk what will happen. Is it your fault for not getting clear info, no I don't think so.I guess the question would then become did you use enough effort to try and get it straight or just give it up?
I have read bible (and I have to say It was like I was reading quran again) and thougth bible is bullshit.
And most of the ex christians here did the same thing.
But you are saying that bible has another meanings other than we understand. That means we have been mistaken. Are we going to suffer eternally just for that reason? I never did anything wrong.(like killing raping etc)
Quote:5- But God is a personal God, not just the God who visited Moses or Abraham. If you told all of your millions of employees that the pen is mightier than the sword in a memo and then told one to build something mightier than the sword, wouldn't you expect a pen? I'm a big proponent of personal accountability so I'd say it's the individual's responsibility for what they produce. Misguided instructions are no excuse for not using common sense, conscience, and rationality (and the Holy Spirit in Christian cases).
Problem is he didnt tell us that pen is mightier than sword. We had to figure it throughout thousands of years wars and destruction.
Common sense: Its not a common sense to punish someone who did nothing wrong in his life(book of job)
Conscience:killing everyone for some people's sins has nothing to do with conscience!(several times in bible)
Rationality: Its not rational to go on a suicide mission to forgive people's sins which is created by yourself and since you have the power of forgiving them without doing such thing.(jesus fuckin christ)
So god has nothing to do with those virtues..
Quote:6-IDK, but if you're talking about a non-physical body experiencing pain.. it doesn't seem to make sense that it would be anything remotely close to physical pain. However the Bible does say there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, which seems indicative as more of an emotional anguish and pain than a physical.
So there will be a pain nonetheless.
Do you think I (or anyone) deserve such pain just becouse I didn't believe in god??
Quote:Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.
