Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
87
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 12:49 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 11:45 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote: (November 1, 2016 at 8:43 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Yeah, I saw that when I researched this stuff before. Even people on the ground weren't convinced, or saw nothing at all. They were there; they ought to know.
Well apparently those people who didn't see anything weren't devout enough.
I don't think so.
Most people there, numbered in the tens of thousands, saw the zig zagging sun movements across the sky. But some didn't. Plenty of the ones who didn't were Catholic (as has been linked here already), and plenty of the ones who did were skeptic.
That's the thing with miracles. We don't understand why God grants this gift to some but not to others.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 19670
Threads: 178
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation:
91
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 1:01 pm
Posts: 10505
Threads: 31
Joined: April 3, 2015
Reputation:
64
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 1:38 pm
I have to say, it is curious that the kids did specify that time and place, if you're saying poca that it was a natural place for something like that to happen... whether they'd seen similar effects there before, or there was otherwise more to this than meets the eye... almost like PR stunt  . It makes me think of the scene in Apocalypto where the Mayan high priest cashes in on an eclipse to wow the ignorant gathered crowd into thinking that the god they're sacrificing to is appeased.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
155
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 1:41 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 12:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 2, 2016 at 11:45 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Well apparently those people who didn't see anything weren't devout enough.
I don't think so.
Most people there, numbered in the tens of thousands, saw the zig zagging sun movements across the sky. But some didn't. Plenty of the ones who didn't were Catholic (as has been linked here already), and plenty of the ones who did were skeptic.
That's the thing with miracles. We don't understand why God grants this gift to some but not to others.
I do.
"I'll see it when I believe it."
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
87
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 2:50 pm
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
deleteduser12345
Unregistered
Religious Views:
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 2:58 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 12:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 2, 2016 at 11:45 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Well apparently those people who didn't see anything weren't devout enough.
I don't think so.
Most people there, numbered in the tens of thousands, saw the zig zagging sun movements across the sky. But some didn't. Plenty of the ones who didn't were Catholic (as has been linked here already), and plenty of the ones who did were skeptic.
That's the thing with miracles. We don't understand why God grants this gift to some but not to others.
I have been adressing this --'
Seems like there's no **** point in arguing sometimes.
Posts: 13122
Threads: 130
Joined: October 18, 2014
Reputation:
55
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 3:20 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 12:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's the thing with miracles.
No. That's the ring of mass psychosis. Apart from the fact that people may or may not have seen what they talked about later. Some may have been honest in their accounts, really believing they saw what the claimed to have seen, some may just have seeked their 15 minutes of fame. The whole thing is the classic case of hearsay and anecdotal evidence.
Posts: 19670
Threads: 178
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation:
91
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 3:24 pm
Posts: 13122
Threads: 130
Joined: October 18, 2014
Reputation:
55
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 3:28 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2016 at 3:30 pm by abaris.)
(November 2, 2016 at 3:24 pm)pocaracas Wrote: It wouldn't take much to make those kids believe in what they were being told... Rural Portugal was pretty much pastoral - no sophistication of any kind... Very religious to begin with, so, by default, gullible.
That's why I even draw the skeptics into question. I guess it would have been hard to find any skeptic in rural Portugal at that time. Or any rural part of Europe for that matter.
The children? Well, who says they said what they're supposed to have said at the time in question? I guess Fatima was as piss poor a region before the grand "miracle" as many of the other regions where miracles supposedly happened. Not anymore, I guess. Same as Lourdes.
Posts: 10505
Threads: 31
Joined: April 3, 2015
Reputation:
64
RE: Apparitions from heaven???
November 2, 2016 at 3:51 pm
(November 2, 2016 at 3:28 pm)abaris Wrote: (November 2, 2016 at 3:24 pm)pocaracas Wrote: It wouldn't take much to make those kids believe in what they were being told... Rural Portugal was pretty much pastoral - no sophistication of any kind... Very religious to begin with, so, by default, gullible.
That's why I even draw the skeptics into question. I guess it would have been hard to find any skeptic in rural Portugal at that time. Or any rural part of Europe for that matter.
So do I. I mean who would go? If say Drich 'prophesised' on here that something was going to happen at a certain time and place, what right-thinking athiest would actually go there just in case or just to prove him wrong? The more likely response would be 'yeah, whatever'.
|