Dear Atheists

[robvalue]

Using our emotions as a measure of truth is simply unreliable, no matter how well we are.

Anyone can sit around saying how certain they are about something. It makes no difference. If something is true, and usefully so, it can be demonstrated in some way. If it requires someone else just taking your word for it, it's not going to be very useful.

Meditation can achieve all sorts of strange feelings. If you want to associate feelings with stories, then you will. That doesn't make it valid.

I can meditate, or experience profound emotions, in many different ways without needing to think I'm talking to God or some such. So I still don't know why I should care about any of this. It seems to be just people telling me about their own experiences and what they think they are about. If God continues to make his communication indistinguishable from various other well understood phenomena, then it's too bad for him I guess. He should try harder. I communicate with people just fine without having them do a ritual first.

[ParagonLost]

Using our emotions as a measure of truth is simply unreliable, no matter how well we are.

Anyone can sit around saying how certain they are about something. It makes no difference. If something is true, and usefully so, it can be demonstrated in some way. If it requires someone else just taking your word for it, it's not going to be very useful.

Meditation can achieve all sorts of strange feelings. If you want to associate feelings with stories, then you will. That doesn't make it valid.

I can meditate, or experience profound emotions, in many different ways without needing to think I'm talking to God or some such. So I still don't know why I should care about any of this. It seems to be just people telling me about their own experiences and what they think they are about. If God continues to make his communication indistinguishable from various other well understood phenomena, then it's too bad for him I guess. He should try harder. I communicate with people just fine without having them do a ritual first.

God can't be argued and is not a thesis or hypothesis. It's a reality that can be experienced or known. If God means a being that is anthropomorphic and can be detected with science as some being, then I too disbelieve.

"I can meditate, or experience profound emotions, in many different ways without needing to think I'm talking to God or some such."

Agreed! But in our post scientific world you are trying to question whether it's a matter of natural cause or supernatural. And I confess it's natural.

[Whateverist]

Using our emotions as a measure of truth is simply unreliable, no matter how well we are.

Anyone can sit around saying how certain they are about something. It makes no difference. If something is true, and usefully so, it can be demonstrated in some way. If it requires someone else just taking your word for it, it's not going to be very useful.

Meditation can achieve all sorts of strange feelings. If you want to associate feelings with stories, then you will. That doesn't make it valid.

I can meditate, or experience profound emotions, in many different ways without needing to think I'm talking to God or some such. So I still don't know why I should care about any of this. It seems to be just people telling me about their own experiences and what they think they are about. If God continues to make his communication indistinguishable from various other well understood phenomena, then it's too bad for him I guess. He should try harder. I communicate with people just fine without having them do a ritual first.

God can't be argued and is not a thesis or hypothesis. It's a reality that can be experienced or known. If God means a being that is anthropomorphic and can be detected with science as some being, then I too disbelieve.

"I can meditate, or experience profound emotions, in many different ways without needing to think I'm talking to God or some such."

Agreed! But in our post scientific world you are trying to question whether it's a matter of natural cause or supernatural. And I confess it's natural.

You're definitely my kind of guy.  So I wonder if you think there is any rationale for keeping any of the trappings of xtianity up in one's own abode?  Maybe just if it helps?

[ParagonLost]

God can't be argued and is not a thesis or hypothesis. It's a reality that can be experienced or known. If God means a being that is anthropomorphic and can be detected with science as some being, then I too disbelieve.

"I can meditate, or experience profound emotions, in many different ways without needing to think I'm talking to God or some such."

Agreed! But in our post scientific world you are trying to question whether it's a matter of natural cause or supernatural. And I confess it's natural.

You're definitely my kind of guy.  So I wonder if you think there is any rationale for keeping any of the trappings of xtianity up in one's own abode?  Maybe just if it helps?

It depends what you mean by trappings, can you please re phrase. I would appreciate it!

[Whateverist]

You know - crosses, needlepoint proverbs, maybe a copy of the bible. I think it doesn't do any harm to mull over the lore of various culture's wisdom stories to note similarities. But once you see that none of it is literally necessary, why keep it around. Maybe just for the comfort of keeping in touch with one's roots?

[ParagonLost]

If for example you experience God as a expression of Love, then that is what is God; Love. If Love is part of morality, Then that's part of God as well. This is what i meant by God having multiple definitions.

Personal experience is a mind state whether they're interpreted with God or without. The only way we can ask ourselves if the experience is casiustry or if it' real, is if we think were experiencing something outside our mind or soul. Think of trying to categorize a experience or explaining it, like it was from God, when actually your talking about a concept. The concept that your trying to explain is infinite and so is God. This is why they're connected; identical to the ground of being. Our concepts are not God though(concept being trying to explain the experience we had), God is infinite. The concept itself is valuable and trying to define it can help but is hard.

We all think our deepest thoughts, desires, and commotion has a self behind it. But when we are just in a state of knowing that someone disappears. We move to a state of ethereal. And God doesn't have a self.

Many people argue that mystical experiences should be considered perceptions of God like physical objects in ordinary sense.

[The Grand Nudger]

You know - crosses, needlepoint proverbs, maybe a copy of the bible.  I think it doesn't do any harm to mull over the lore of various culture's wisdom stories to note similarities.  But once you see that none of it is literally necessary, why keep it around.  Maybe just for the comfort of keeping in touch with one's roots?

Well, obviously, you keep the well written ones.  I don't know if that rules the bible in or out...but that's how I make those decisions.

[ParagonLost]

You know - crosses, needlepoint proverbs, maybe a copy of the bible.  I think it doesn't do any harm to mull over the lore of various culture's wisdom stories to note similarities.  But once you see that none of it is literally necessary, why keep it around.  Maybe just for the comfort of keeping in touch with one's roots?

Roots is defiinitely part of it. My Parents aren't so religious but my Grandpa was and I love him dearly. His Faith means a lot to me. Your right it isn't literally necessary for what I'm describing but do you then make up your own religion? Or do you use the various traditions that are already here? You don't make up your own dictionary of words either. Plus i just Appreciate everything Jesus did so much. When you experience God, there is a firm and powerful feeling of gratitude. I find that in Jesus and what he did.

[The Grand Nudger]

What did "jesus" do....lol?

[ParagonLost]

What did "jesus" do....lol?

Hi Rhythm, sorry for ignoring you in this thread. Rhythm, believe it nor not, and this is without the supernatural or prophecy, but i think Jesus knew he was going to die. I believe he was a sacrifice. Now this isn't to be confused with substitution. I don't think that sacrifice in the old testament meant that you had to take a animal and hurt it unbearably so that your sins could be forgiven.

There is death crucifixion (being crucified after your death) and being crucified while being alive or just being impaled. Jesus took the worst possible route, which in my opinion he committed the worst possible treason.