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**chimp3** · January 11, 2017 at 6:26 am

(January 11, 2017 at 6:21 am)robvalue Wrote: Sure, for things we all agree on, there is no problem. Most of us could probably hammer out most points with agreement.

But suddenly introduce someone from another culture with radically different ideas, and what do you do? Tell them they are wrong? No one has this authority. They would turn around and tell us we're wrong as well. It would be a matter of starting from first principles, and if people don't agree on those, there isn't anything that can be done except to continue to debate. One group announcing they "are right" is just excluding others from the discussion.

That's why we have different cultures. So?

**robvalue** · (This post was last modified: January 11, 2017 at 6:32 am by robvalue.)

So it's subjective Smile

I'm only arguing against people who claim there is some objective standard.

But you're right, if you can sit down and sort it out, it doesn't matter what you call it.

~~Edwardo Piet~~ · January 11, 2017 at 9:36 am

(January 11, 2017 at 12:48 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(January 10, 2017 at 8:37 am)chimp3 Wrote: Name one moral act that can not be accomplished without religion.

Name one moral principle that atheists didn't adopt from religion.

Name one moral principle that didn't predate religion.

**Neo-Scholastic** · January 11, 2017 at 9:49 am

(January 11, 2017 at 1:19 am)chimp3 Wrote:
(January 11, 2017 at 1:09 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you think morality is objective then?

No. Not irrational though. We must argue, debate, and come to common agreement about what is moral. Human well being is a good starting point.

People can arrive at moral principles by observing Nature precisely because we live in an intelligently ordered universe and Man has the capacity to think having been created in the image of a rational Creator. You are only addressing the epistemological question of how we can know moral principles and not the ontological basis explaining how there can be any kind of morality at all.

~~Edwardo Piet~~ · (This post was last modified: January 11, 2017 at 9:51 am by Edwardo Piet.)

(January 11, 2017 at 9:49 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: People can arrive at moral principles by observing Nature precisely because we live in an intelligently ordered universe and Man has the capacity to think having been created in the image of a rational Creator.

Unnecessary assumption and non-sequitur.

Humans have the capacity to think because of evolution. Not because of some dude in the sky.

**Neo-Scholastic** · January 11, 2017 at 10:34 am

(January 11, 2017 at 9:51 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:
(January 11, 2017 at 9:49 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: People can arrive at moral principles by observing Nature precisely because we live in an intelligently ordered universe and Man has the capacity to think having been created in the image of a rational Creator.

Unnecessary assumption and non-sequitur.

Humans have the capacity to think because of evolution. Not because of some dude in the sky.

Ever hear of Darwin's Doubt?

~~Edwardo Piet~~ · January 11, 2017 at 10:36 am

Ever heard of DNA?

ApeNotKillApe · (This post was last modified: January 11, 2017 at 10:39 am by ApeNotKillApe.)

(January 11, 2017 at 10:34 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(January 11, 2017 at 9:51 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Unnecessary assumption and non-sequitur.

Humans have the capacity to think because of evolution. Not because of some dude in the sky.

Ever hear of Darwin's Doubt?

I haven't.

**Neo-Scholastic** · January 11, 2017 at 10:43 am

I'll take that as a no.

~~Edwardo Piet~~ · January 11, 2017 at 10:44 am

So do you have a point? Darwin's Doubt is written by a creationist.

Are you a creationist now?

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