Why would a perfect being make an imperfect world?

[Asmodee]

Oh, there are arguments against it aplenty.  First, free will is a later concept, not something which actually made it into the Bible.  The Bible never even hints that this is a thing.  Quite the opposite, God freely tampered with free will in the Bible.  When she really wanted to punish people for ding bad she "hardened Pharaoh's heart" to make sure he would do bad so she could punish all the little babies in Egypt.  The God of the Bible certainly doesn't hold free will as this sacred pinnacle his followers today do.

And then there's the big argument against it.  If free will is so important, why will it no longer exist when you get to Heaven?  If free will is so important to God then why is the destination sans-free will?  I've never heard any Christian say that they think you will have the ability to sin in Heaven.  So right now free will is the most important thing ever, but in Heaven it will be utterly unimportant?  How about this as an alternate explanation.  Given that free will is not mentioned in the Bible at all, that God herself tampers with it as if it's meaningless and that it will no longer exist in Heaven, isn't it possible that free will is really nothing more than a convenient excuse to throw out when your brain just isn't limber enough to do the real mental gymnastics it takes to excuse the idiocy and contradictions in your beliefs?  Because I'm thinking that's the answer right there.

Looks to me as if you didn't read my first post to you, if you had you would of seen that I said you only have complete free will in one area. As l've said in other threads, outside of that anything could happen. God has providence over His creation.

GC

Please enlighten me.  What "one area" do we have complete free will over?

It seems to me that your definition of "free will" looks a little like this:

[Huggy Bear]

If you don't believe in a perfect god then this isn't aimed torwards you.

Why would a perfect being need/want to make an imperfect world with imperfect beings?

You have this individual who supposedly has no flaws at all, and he makes a flawed universe full of people who harm one another and who hate one another.

It doesn't make sense at all. Why would a perfect being make a imperfect world.

If your first answer was free will then if Free will is such a limiting factor on making a perfect creation why have it in the first place?  It seems like that in itself is a mistake, intentionally making your creation with a huge limiting factor.

Ok Socrates, answer this; can perfection exist without imperfection?

[Socrates]

If you don't believe in a perfect god then this isn't aimed torwards you.

Why would a perfect being need/want to make an imperfect world with imperfect beings?

You have this individual who supposedly has no flaws at all, and he makes a flawed universe full of people who harm one another and who hate one another.

It doesn't make sense at all. Why would a perfect being make a imperfect world.

If your first answer was free will then if Free will is such a limiting factor on making a perfect creation why have it in the first place?  It seems like that in itself is a mistake, intentionally making your creation with a huge limiting factor.

Ok Socrates, answer this; can perfection exist without imperfection?

Can't answer that. I don't live in a perfect world so I can't say for sure. My reason tells me yes so if you wanna go off that then go ahead.

[Huggy Bear]

Ok Socrates, answer this; can perfection exist without imperfection?

Can't answer that. I don't live in a perfect world so I can't say for sure. My reason tells me yes so if you wanna go off that then go ahead.

It's a common sense question, perfection cannot exist without imperfection because imperfection is what defines perfection, therefore one cannot truly appreciate or know what "perfection" is without experiencing imperfection.

[SteveII]

Can't answer that. I don't live in a perfect world so I can't say for sure. My reason tells me yes so if you wanna go off that then go ahead.

It's a common sense question, perfection cannot exist without imperfection because imperfection is what defines perfection, therefore one cannot truly appreciate or know what "perfection" is without experiencing imperfection.

I'm not sure that is true. If God existed prior to creation of the universe, he did so in a state of perfection. No imperfection would have existed. I think it is the other way around: No imperfection could exist without an idea of perfection.

[Socrates]

Can't answer that. I don't live in a perfect world so I can't say for sure. My reason tells me yes so if you wanna go off that then go ahead.

It's a common sense question, perfection cannot exist without imperfection because imperfection is what defines perfection, therefore one cannot truly appreciate or know what "perfection" is without experiencing imperfection.

I think using the terms we have now that it is possible that perfection can exist without imperfection. Anyone living in a perfect world might not understand the magnitude of it, but it could still exist without imperfection nonetheless. Regardless I don't think a perfect world exists, not even in some weird multiverse space timey thing.

[Huggy Bear]

It's a common sense question, perfection cannot exist without imperfection because imperfection is what defines perfection, therefore one cannot truly appreciate or know what "perfection" is without experiencing imperfection.

I'm not sure that is true. If God existed prior to creation of the universe, he did so in a state of perfection. No imperfection would have existed. I think it is the other way around: No imperfection could exist without an idea of perfection.

Ahh, but even then the concept of imperfection existed... Hence why the Bible states that the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.

[SteveII]

So basically, all of you, 5 answering so far, depend entirely on the notion of freewill to explain pretty much everything. Quite the loophole it provides.

So this thread is destined to turn into yet another thread on freewill, and how it magically explains everything, even though there's as much evidence for it as there is for God, which is to say none. Your god delusion is dependent on a grand illusion, lol.

You say there is no evidence for Free Will. Isn't your conclusion that there is no Free Will based on naturalism--a philosophical position, and not based on science or other concrete 'evidence'? Why should I believe your ideology that there is nothing but natural properties and causes when I have very good reason to suspect there is more than that? In case you are going to ask what are my reasons, I would reply that Naturalism does not address why:

a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.

[Crossless2.0]

So basically, all of you, 5 answering so far, depend entirely on the notion of freewill to explain pretty much everything. Quite the loophole it provides.

So this thread is destined to turn into yet another thread on freewill, and how it magically explains everything, even though there's as much evidence for it as there is for God, which is to say none. Your god delusion is dependent on a grand illusion, lol.

You say there is no evidence for Free Will. Isn't your conclusion that there is no Free Will based on naturalism--a philosophical position, and not based on science or other concrete 'evidence'? Why should I believe your ideology that there is nothing but natural properties and causes when I have very good reason to suspect there is more than that? In case you are going to ask what are my reasons, I would reply that Naturalism does not address why:

a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.

Nice poisoning of the well. I've come to expect nothing less from you.

And 'explanation'? You mean other way of saying, "I don't know," while slipping in your favorite book character, Yahweh, right?

[brewer]

So basically, all of you, 5 answering so far, depend entirely on the notion of freewill to explain pretty much everything. Quite the loophole it provides.

So this thread is destined to turn into yet another thread on freewill, and how it magically explains everything, even though there's as much evidence for it as there is for God, which is to say none. Your god delusion is dependent on a grand illusion, lol.

You say there is no evidence for Free Will. Isn't your conclusion that there is no Free Will based on naturalism--a philosophical position, and not based on science or other concrete 'evidence'? Why should I believe your ideology that there is nothing but natural properties and causes when I have very good reason to suspect there is more than that? In case you are going to ask what are my reasons, I would reply that Naturalism does not address why:

a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.

Those are some bold assertions. Got anything other than fantasy magic to back them up?