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What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 2:42 am
Hello everyone. Suppose that your definition of sufficient (whatever that may be) proof for the existence of a deity was satisfied. Also, suppose that the nature of this deity is completely different from the one described by human theists. Hence, assume that whatever objections you had to human theists' versions of god do not apply to this lifeform.
Now, would you accept the existence of this lifeform only and just go about your business? Would you like to interact with it and learn from it (this process would not have to be through religion or any form of worship)?
Hence, as members of the secular community, are you more opposed to how humanity has collectively chosen to enact and practice their god concepts than to the actual idea of a god-like being itself?
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 2:48 am
Just quietly, I don't understand why any being powerful enough to be classified as a god would ever bother with us.
What exactly is so special about us to warrant the attention of said being?
No God, No fear.
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 2:52 am
As George Carlin put it, the 'real' God is busy hurling gas balls around the firmament.
We're stuck with the Western Marketing Manager.
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 3:05 am
(February 24, 2017 at 2:48 am)ignoramus Wrote: Just quietly, I don't understand why any being powerful enough to be classified as a god would ever bother with us.
What exactly is so special about us to warrant the attention of said being?
Excellent point. Perhaps learning how to fully embrace ourselves as a species would be a good starting point toward warranting such a visit from said life-form?
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 3:10 am
Can't really get into imagining a deity as a being in its own right. Just no. But thinking of it as something fairly autonomous that you have on board which can enhance your life. That should be enough. An honest theist should at least be able to admit they don't know whether the god they think know is in the greater world or just their own psyche.
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 4:19 am
An honest theist? Mark, I can't imagine any of them admitting to the second part! Otherwise they wouldn't be good Christians... Lying to yourself is part of indoctrination. You need to believe 100% that's it's all true before you can even begin to preach...
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 12:09 pm
(This post was last modified: February 24, 2017 at 12:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 24, 2017 at 2:42 am)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote: Hello everyone. Suppose that your definition of sufficient (whatever that may be) proof for the existence of a deity was satisfied. Also, suppose that the nature of this deity is completely different from the one described by human theists. Hence, assume that whatever objections you had to human theists' versions of god do not apply to this lifeform. k.
Quote:Now, would you accept the existence of this lifeform only and just go about your business?
Yup, bit like squirrels.
Quote:Would you like to interact with it and learn from it (this process would not have to be through religion or any form of worship)?
The notion that we have something to learn from it is one of those things you tossed in the bin, above, when stating that human theists versions of god do not apply to this lifeform.
Quote:Hence, as members of the secular community, are you more opposed to how humanity has collectively chosen to enact and practice their god concepts than to the actual idea of a god-like being itself?
I don't think that the two are separable, at all. You tried, above...look how that turned out. 
However, to answer the question on it's merits, lol, that I don;t believe the god botherers when they tell me that there's a god isn't an objection. It's just a statement of fact. I, personally, object to their shitty gods strictures and systems and normative proclamations. Which is why I tell them that the existence of their god is irrelevant to my status of faith. Their faiths fail, for me, not on grounds of the existence of their god...but on ethical/moral grounds unrelated to the existence of a deity.
I don't have a skeptical objection to their god (I don't believe in it, sure, but I don't believe in alot of things and some of them probably -are- true to some extent...brute force of numbers, lol)...I have a moral commitment to oppose their religions regardless. If someone came up with a less-than-miserable god concept...and religion surrounding it...I;d tell them that I dn;t believe them...still....but hey, carry on, right? Nothing immediately objectionable, so go do and believe in your god shit to your hearts content.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 12:28 pm
I can see how a person could be convinced by a personal or inner experience that they can't provide evidence of yet they found completely compelling. It's kind of the nature of such experiences (whether from peyote, a week of fasting, an NDE, or whatever) that they often (not always) compel belief from the person having the experience.
It could be reasonable to believe under those circumstances. However, whether their belief is reasonable depends a lot on what actions the deity they believe they've experienced wants from them. If it turns a bigoted weasel into civil rights champion, I haven't much complaint. If it turns a civil rights champion into a bigoted weasel, that's a real shame.
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 12:29 pm
(This post was last modified: February 24, 2017 at 12:31 pm by paulpablo.)
Just to answer your question,I'd probably at least attempt to communicate with this godlike being.
But if it was one of those deals where God said he'd tell me everything I want to know but the answers are likely to leave me suicidally depressed or drive me insane I'd probably go about my bussiness happy and ignorant.
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RE: What is Your Definition of Reasonable Faith?
February 24, 2017 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: February 24, 2017 at 12:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That would be a compelling faith, but not a reasonable one. It's trivially easy to understand and acknowledge a compelling faith, imo. The trouble, ofc, is that some of the most compelling things in human experience are also some of the least reasonable.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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