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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 20, 2010 at 11:31 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2010 at 11:51 pm by annatar.)
Assuming god exists and perform miracles, this leads us to a conclusion that god is not a good being. I mean think about it a plane crashes and you have the power to save everyone in the plane. But you save just one person. Is that rational? I can understand the ones who claim that god can't interfere our world and therefor he can't save people, but if he can and he prefers not to, that means he is not good... Of course we assume there is a god.
And for miracles like turning water into wine or spliting the moon, C'moon! We are not 6 grade! How come you believe such things without any evidence? Imagine that moon splits into two and falls from the sky( by the way it falls to earth which is really funny considering what would be happened if it did.) and apparently everyone missed that except Muhammed and his fellas. Including those pagans that muhammed suppose to convince!  If something like that had happened front of me I would believe in without a second thought but those bigot pagans didn't. Can you imagine that! and jesus.. how many believers he had? 12? well its just a waste of miracle if you ask me.. Later on, I suppose god found out that marketing was better than miracles and cheap too!
Quote:Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.
Gandalf The Gray.
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 21, 2010 at 12:07 am
(September 20, 2010 at 11:18 pm)IceSage Wrote: Although, it could make another topic, which I want to create.. since we're on the topic of miracles, let me propose another question to those who believe in miracles.
Why do you CONSIDER a miracle?
I don't understand how religious people can look at something, and consider it a "miracle" when it's obviously not.
To be fair, I'll give you an example of what I would consider a miracle:
A person blows up, to bits and pieces, blood and parts fly everywhere. Police and CSIs show up, confirm the man as dead, and that's it's his body. They gather up the pieces, clean it up, and all of a sudden, the pieces glow and form together, and the man is alive again. He's all like, "Hey guys, sup?" and walks away.
I'd consider that a "miracle."
You must not read about the crucfixion and resurrection of Jesus. Before you go on about the police and CSI not being there to confirm His death think about this, the Roman soldiers that were responsible to see that Jesus was crucified properly were the ones who pronounced Him dead and these men were good at their job. If they made mistakes it would cost them their lives so they made sure they did their job well. Pilate was suprised that Jesus died so quickly but He never questioned the soldiers.
As for a miracle my salvation for me is the greatest miracle of all !!!!!!!! Thank You Jesus
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 21, 2010 at 12:37 am
If it ever happened, G-C....which you are a long way from showing.
Enjoy your "salvation" If there is any.
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 21, 2010 at 12:25 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2010 at 12:26 pm by annatar.)
@G.C
If it is real and you got your salvation. Would you be happy knowing that there are millions of people suffering just becouse they didn't believe in a stupid miracle?
I know I wouldn't...
Quote:Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.
Gandalf The Gray.
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 21, 2010 at 2:20 pm
(September 21, 2010 at 12:25 pm)annatar Wrote: @G.C
If it is real and you got your salvation. Would you be happy knowing that there are millions of people suffering just becouse they didn't believe in a stupid miracle?
I know I wouldn't...
Are you kidding? That's the best part about hell:
"How shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness; so many magistrates liquefying in fiercer flames than they ever kindled against the Christians; so many sages philosophers blushing in red-hot fires with their deluded pupils; so many tragedians more tuneful in the expression of their own sufferings; so many dancers tripping more nimbly from anguish then ever before from applause." ~ Tertullian
“Society is not a disease, it is a disaster. What a stupid miracle that one can live in it.” ~ E.M. Cioran
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 21, 2010 at 3:16 pm
(September 20, 2010 at 4:33 am)Rayaan Wrote: As a believer, I think it's true that the Prophets were able to do miracles like the splitting of the moon, for example.
Maybe they were somehow hacking the laws of physics by the help of God. (?)
They are called the LAWS of physics for a reason. They are naturally followed. 
Quote:"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity. "
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 21, 2010 at 10:01 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2010 at 10:11 pm by Godscreated.)
(September 21, 2010 at 12:37 am)Minimalist Wrote: If it ever happened, G-C....which you are a long way from showing.
Enjoy your "salvation" If there is any.
It did and I will Min.
(September 21, 2010 at 12:25 pm)annatar Wrote: @G.C
If it is real and you got your salvation. Would you be happy knowing that there are millions of people suffering just becouse they didn't believe in a stupid miracle?
I know I wouldn't...
It want work like you believe annatar, God will reveal that at the appropriate time so don't ask me how or when only God knows the answer to that.
(September 21, 2010 at 2:20 pm)Entropist Wrote: (September 21, 2010 at 12:25 pm)annatar Wrote: @G.C
If it is real and you got your salvation. Would you be happy knowing that there are millions of people suffering just becouse they didn't believe in a stupid miracle?
I know I wouldn't...
Are you kidding? That's the best part about hell:
"How shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness; so many magistrates liquefying in fiercer flames than they ever kindled against the Christians; so many sages philosophers blushing in red-hot fires with their deluded pupils; so many tragedians more tuneful in the expression of their own sufferings; so many dancers tripping more nimbly from anguish then ever before from applause." ~ Tertullian
The saved will not be allowed to see hell NT don't have time to look it up, parable of the rich man and the poor begger.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 21, 2010 at 10:34 pm
But there is no evidence of it, G-C.
None.
All there is are the ramblings of deluded followers which have been edited by later generations of bull shit artists.
Remember, all I'm asking for is a single early first century writer to mention something about even an absurd belief that a crucified criminal came back to life. But you don't even have that.
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 22, 2010 at 3:47 am
(September 21, 2010 at 12:07 am)Godschild Wrote: You must not read about the crucfixion and resurrection of Jesus. Before you go on about the police and CSI not being there to confirm His death think about this, the Roman soldiers that were responsible to see that Jesus was crucified properly were the ones who pronounced Him dead and these men were good at their job. If they made mistakes it would cost them their lives so they made sure they did their job well. Pilate was suprised that Jesus died so quickly but He never questioned the soldiers.
As for a miracle my salvation for me is the greatest miracle of all !!!!!!!! Thank You Jesus
Oh, my bad. I meant in real life.
I like the way you think!
...But please stop thinking, it's not you.
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RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 22, 2010 at 9:39 am
On another level. one which doesnt actually prove anything but can not be dismissed straight off is experience.
I am aware that there is a lot of faking and misleading about miracles these days. On tv it makes me cringe watching some of the plonkers richard dawkins finds to interview.
However again speaking for christianity, not all religion,
I have personal experience of seeing healing. I guy in my church was had haemophilia and now does not, he does not take medication. This thing is not curable by medicine. And this incident is backed up medically.
Another girl had chronic fatigue syndrome for a good 8 years. she couldnt run or walk for more than half an hour. However she is now at uni studying medicine and has the energy to do the whole course. But it was literally until the day she arrived at uni that she had Chronic fatigue syndrome.
So what im saying is this, it is right and necessary to take a subject like miracles beyond theory. 4D exists in theory but in reality its not possible. So there is no point having miracles just in theory. it has to be accomanied by the study of whether or not miracles happen.
People who claim of miracles (lol like myself) are 1 of 3 things either they are mad, lying or telling the truth. This is how C.S Lewis puts it in the lion witch and the wardrobe.
This is also important to consider, and if one were to ask a christian about healings, its a good idea to ask yourself which one is he or she.
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