What is logic?

[Jesster]

There it is again. Whatever it is, bother someone else with it. You're on ignore because your posts aren't worth reading.

[Angrboda]

  That is a load o'crap yog.

   It is a fact that we are all different therefore God can not possibly show Him-Herself (no sex) in the same way to
   everybody.
   We carry different karma so the help that God give to one can not be the same to somebody else.
   There are different stages of samadhi or bliss.
   Why should we all experience the same level of bliss when someone deserve more or less than other people?

   That is nothing but fairy tales.  It's an ad hoc rationalization for why there are hallucinatory features in people's NDEs.  God or not God is what is at issue here.  You can't use what you hope to prove with these hallucinatory experiences to explain the hallucinatory experience.  That's simply begging the question.  Your answer doesn't come close to explaining why there are imaginary things inside people's NDE experiences.  The simplest answer is that the entire NDE is imaginary.  That's parsimony.  Not this made up ad hoc shit that you pulled from your ass. a) You have no way of knowing this, and b) it puts the veracity of the whole experience in doubt.  If a woman can imagine herself wearing long johns, why can't she imagine all the rest?  Your answer is a kind of "trust me, the two things are different."  Well no, they aren't.  If the long johns are made up, so is the rest of it.

You are guessing Yog.
You wouldn't know whether an experience is a real NDE that happen when the consciousness separate from the dead body-brain or an hallucination that happen when the brain is still alive and the consciousness being stuck in a sick brain react as she can producing an hallucination beside even real NDEs can produce feelings that some people relate to hallucination such as the case with Storm and in his first approach to his NDE in which he is shown the mental hell that he would feel if he continue to behave like a dick.
Some people in their NDE could mainly experience the bad side given as a lesson and very little of the good side or the bliss part.

You get cornered and you start making up bullshit like that there's a difference between a "real NDE" and a hallucination.  It's just pathetic evasion on your part.  You can't tell the difference between NDEs that occur when the patient is flatlined and when they are not, so parsimony and the experiences say that they're undergoing the same process.  But squirm away, little man, make your arbitrary distinctions that don't exist if it will keep you from acknowledging the truth.

   This is just more irrelevant crap which doesn't explain why people have hallucinatory features in their NDEs.  It's just a load of stalling crap and is based on nothing but dogma.  Look, it's real simple.  I'll show you:

   1. EITHER all NDEs are real OR all NDEs are false;                 (law of parsimony)
   2. IF some NDEs are hallucinations, THEN all NDEs are hallucinations;  (by 1)
   3. Some NDEs are hallucinations;                                       (previous post)
   4. Therefore all NDEs are hallucinations                               (by 2 and 3)

   You wanted logic?  You got logic.  Now answer the argument or don't.  No more of these fairy tale whinings about "well God would do this" or "God would do that" -- you are not God, and your guesses about what God would do are irrelevant and are the worst kind of ad hoc bullshit.  Answer the argument or don't.

This Yog is all intellectual extravaganza.
All bullshit.
First of all you got to make sure that an experience is a real NDE or an hallucination.
After that you can draw your conclusion but you do not do that.
You guess and guess that one is the other and the other is something else.
In this way you end up in a mental labyrinth from which you can't get out.

Yes, that explains why you can't point out the flaw in my logic.  :rolls-eyes:

You've succeeded in only one thing, and that is in convincing me that NDEs are not real.

Your entire worldview--reincarnation, karma, yoga, etc.--is nothing but dogmatic bullshit.


By the way, thanks for screwing up the quote tags, asshole.

   Sure, don't just stand there.  DO SOMETHING!  The problem with this is that some things are helpful. Some things are not.  And some problems have no solution, so "just do anything" is a waste of time.  The wise person is the one who realizes that the quest for permanent peace of mind is a pipe dream, and that the only real solution is to struggle for what meaning is available in this life, not sitting around meditating on a mantra given to you by a long dead con man.  Your NDE evidence is crap.  And your Yoga is a lie.  It can't deliver permanent happiness because nothing can.  And saying "do something, anything" is a pointless distraction to the real problems people face.  Go ahead and waste your life in pointless yoga. Quit telling other people it's the way to permanent peace of mind.  You don't have it, and you've never known anyone else to have it either.  All you are doing is making up lies about something you don't know shit about.

Gee, now you say that you are able to read my mind and knowing that my yoga does not produce any
bliss and peace of mind.
You know what Yog?
You could make a lot of money as mind reading.
You should try.
Just go in your local shopping center and start this business.
Get rich Yog.  

I said permanent peace of mind, dumbass.  I may not be able to read minds, but I can at least read what's on the page.

Thank you for an entire post filled with non-answers and evasions.  It only confirms what I already knew, which is that you have no answer to my logical arguments.

[TheoneandonlytrueGod]

I have the distinct feeling that Little Rik's logic has nothing to do with Aristotelian logic so arguing against it is a waste of time. It seems to me arguing with LR is much the same as two people arguing religion one biasing his/her argument on the bible while the other is arguing without reference to the bible, a loosing battle for each of them.

On of these days I plan on looking at LR's sentences to try to understand not what he means but what he is actually saying. He has so many run on sentences with misspelled words and crappy syntax it is almost impossible to understand the meaning. It brings on a massive headache for me, whatever he is saying becomes a blur that makes no sense at all.

LR's logic seems to make sense to him, some sort of internal logic that none of the rest of us (except apparently Mystic Knight) can fathom.

I really don't want to read either or them and have time after time tried to move on past their posts but some sort of perverse need to try them seems to overcome me. What a waste of time and energy.

[Angrboda]

(13) But if encounters with conscious plants, talking insects, and dead celebrities doesn't give you pause about accepting NDEs as visions of an objective afterlife reality, perhaps NDEs that include encounters with fictional characters will. Morse reports that a 10-year-old boy had an NDE where he encountered a video-gaming wizard who loved Nintendo and said to him: "Struggle and you shall live" (Abanes 116). Karl Jansen similarly reports finding childhood NDEs that include encounters with video game and comic book characters:

Claims that near-death experiences are always identical, regardless of the set and setting, are contradicted by the variety actually found in published reports. They differ between people and cultures. For example, instead of a tunnel and angels, East Indians may describe the River Ganges and a particular guru. A child having a NDE may "see" his or her still-living friends and teachers, or Nintendo and comic book characters, rather than God (Jansen 96).

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...HNDEs.html

[AceBoogie]

lol LIL RICKs version of logic is as follows

1. Materialistic pursuits don't lead to happiness
2. Therefore god

[Little Rik]

Logic only explains how A goes to B

The Theists argue that because the Atheist's can't define logic, we are wrong, therefore God, when the Theists can't even explain what A and B is in the first place.

According to you, logic is only logic when the A and B goes along with your definitions.

Actually I am not interested in A and B.
I am rather interested in A and Z.
A as the beginning of my attempt to reach the apex of human emancipation and Z as the arrival point.

A to B is only a small step but A to Z represent the full distance.  

---

lol LIL RICKs version of logic is as follows

1. Materialistic pursuits don't lead to happiness
2. Therefore god

That is your conclusion Ace.
My conclusion instead is different.
Considering that the materialistic pursuit can not lead to peace of mind the smart person reorganize and change tactic so if the external approach doesn't work then the smart person will try the internal approach.
God come later.
God doesn't appear as per magic just because someone divert the approach from external to internal.
It may take a minute a lifetime or many many life times.
It is all up to the interest that someone put into the mystic side of the whole.
Never the less by diverting the approach from external to internal a person start the great journey of discovering the self.  

---

(13) But if encounters with conscious plants, talking insects, and dead celebrities doesn't give you pause about accepting NDEs as visions of an objective afterlife reality, perhaps NDEs that include encounters with fictional characters will. Morse reports that a 10-year-old boy had an NDE where he encountered a video-gaming wizard who loved Nintendo and said to him: "Struggle and you shall live" (Abanes 116). Karl Jansen similarly reports finding childhood NDEs that include encounters with video game and comic book characters:

Claims that near-death experiences are always identical, regardless of the set and setting, are contradicted by the variety actually found in published reports. They differ between people and cultures. For example, instead of a tunnel and angels, East Indians may describe the River Ganges and a particular guru. A child having a NDE may "see" his or her still-living friends and teachers, or Nintendo and comic book characters, rather than God (Jansen 96).

https://infidels.org/library/modern/keit...HNDEs.html

A Reply to Shermer, Medical Evidence for NDEs, by Dr. Pim van Lommel In his "Skeptic" column in Scientific American in March, 2003, Michael Shermer cited a research study published in The Lancet, a leading medical journal, by Pim van Lommel and colleagues. He asserted this study "delivered a blow" to the idea that the mind and the brain could separate. Yet the researchers argued the exact opposite, and showed that conscious experience outside the body took place during a period of clinical death when the brain was flatlined. As Jay Ingram, of the Canadian Discovery Channel, commented: "His use of this study to bolster his point is bogus. He could have said, 'The authors think there's a mystery, but I choose to interpret their findings differently'. But he didn't. I find that very disappointing" (Toronto Star, March 16, 2003). Here, Pim van Lommel sets out the evidence that Shermer misrepresented.

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/Articles/Skeptics_Corner.htm

[Little Rik]

You get cornered and you start making up bullshit like that there's a difference between a "real NDE" and a hallucination.  It's just pathetic evasion on your part.  You can't tell the difference between NDEs that occur when the patient is flatlined and when they are not, so parsimony and the experiences say that they're undergoing the same process.  But squirm away, little man, make your arbitrary distinctions that don't exist if it will keep you from acknowledging the truth.

FOOL.

You presume that an NDE can happen when a patient is not having a flatlined ECG.
Wrong presumption Yog.  

In that case you have an hallucination not a real NDE because the consciousness hasn't separated from the body-brain yet.
Only when you get a fletlined ECG you can have an NDE experience.
This yog show how ignorant you are on the issue.  

This Yog is all intellectual extravaganza.
All bullshit.
First of all you got to make sure that an experience is a real NDE or an hallucination.
After that you can draw your conclusion but you do not do that.
You guess and guess that one is the other and the other is something else.
In this way you end up in a mental labyrinth from which you can't get out.

Yes, that explains why you can't point out the flaw in my logic.  :rolls-eyes:
You've succeeded in only one thing, and that is in convincing me that NDEs are not real.
Your entire worldview--reincarnation, karma, yoga, etc.--is nothing but dogmatic bullshit.

Blahhhhh, blahhhhhhhh, blahhhhhhh.......

Gee, now you say that you are able to read my mind and knowing that my yoga does not produce any
bliss and peace of mind.
You know what Yog?
You could make a lot of money as mind reading.
You should try.
Just go in your local shopping center and start this business.
Get rich Yog.  

I said permanent peace of mind, dumbass.  I may not be able to read minds, but I can at least read what's on the page.
Thank you for an entire post filled with non-answers and evasions.  It only confirms what I already knew, which is that you have no answer to my logical arguments.

Logical arguments .........

[Angrboda]

You get cornered and you start making up bullshit like that there's a difference between a "real NDE" and a hallucination.  It's just pathetic evasion on your part.  You can't tell the difference between NDEs that occur when the patient is flatlined and when they are not, so parsimony and the experiences say that they're undergoing the same process.  But squirm away, little man, make your arbitrary distinctions that don't exist if it will keep you from acknowledging the truth.

FOOL.

You presume that an NDE can happen when a patient is not having a flatlined ECG.
Wrong presumption Yog.  

In that case you have an hallucination not a real NDE because the consciousness hasn't separated from the body-brain yet.
Only when you get a fletlined ECG you can have an NDE experience.
This yog show how ignorant you are on the issue.  

The Near-Death Experience (NDE) may be defined as "A lucid experience associated with perceived consciousness apart from the body occurring at the time of actual or threatened imminent death."
~ Dr. Jeffrey Long, founder of NDERF

A near-death experience, or NDE, is a profound psychological event that may occur to a person close to death or who is not near death but in a situation of physical or emotional crisis. Being in a life-threatening situation does not, by itself, constitute a near-death experience. It is the pattern of perceptions, creating a recognizable overall event, that has been called “near-death experience.”
~ International Association Of Near Death Studies

Making up your own definitions when you get cornered again. It's pathetic.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm pretty sure that one of Riks favorite "nde's" to refer to happened when said patient hadn't flatlined, was in no danger of flatlining, and has never claimed to have flatlined?

If a person can see hell during a fucking root canal.......I'm pretty sure that flatlining isn't a requirement.

[Angrboda]

A near-death experience is the reported memory of all impressions during a special state of consciousness, including specific elements such as out-of-body experience, pleasant feelings, and seeing a tunnel, a light, deceased relatives, or a life review.
~ Pim van Lommel, noted NDE expert