There is no doubt a god, the question is what is it?

[Simon Moon]

The argument I will summarize:

Worship means what is Valued Most.
We know Worship ought to be Sacred.
Without God, Worship is not sacred.

A brief proof of 2nd premise:

Without God, we ourselves become the central focus of value, and naturally feel ashamed of what woshiping ourselves.
We should not feel ashamed of what we value most.
We should feel ashamed of worshiping ourselves and petty things like wealth, prestige, sex, etc....

Therefore we know worship out to be sacred.

The conclusion we know God exists naturally follows.

But aside from that, even if you reject that, was has been proven right from the start, there is no such thing as Atheism by definition.

---

Nope. No equivocation fallacies anywhere in this 'proof'.

None at all.

Nor are there any unsupported assertions. None of those either.

Sorry, MK, but just because you think something ought to be a certain way, does not make it so.

Remember the days you considered yourself an agnostic, and actually had some rational reasons for your agnosticism, instead of these BS reasons form being a theist?

Yeah, I miss those days too.

[downbeatplumb]

What do you value the most Min? Whatever that is, that is a deity/god you have taken.

You can try to redefine the word, but the word always was a degree of value.

We cannot but value something.

So there is no such thing as Atheists. I have proven it impossible to be an Athiest.

---

I think whoever came up with the term without belief in god(s) didn't take into consideration, what the word worship always meant.

I just disproved Atheism. It's impossible. You welcome.

Yep. Preaching. You are now going on Ignore... and I don't think I've ever actually put anyone on Ignore.

Eff off.

I finally could not put up with the blathering of little Rik. Sometimes I miss the chain of consciousness nonsense then someone posts a bit and I remember why I put him on ignore. MK used to be rational but something happened. I think he fell in with the wrong crowd.

[drfuzzy]

Prove there is one first.  Scientifically.  Have him show up in person.  Until then all you're doing is mental masturbation.

[KUSA]

In all languages, there is always a concept of false gods or idols. 

Worship at the end is nothing but what we value the most.

If it's ourselves we value the most, then we are our own god, and if we have many things we value on par with each other like prestige, wealth, out of the love of the self, they are all gods and idols.

The question is, why do people then not call themselves, "Self-Worshipers" if they disbelieve in a Creator? Or "Human worshipers + sex worshippers + wealth worshipers" etc....

Because it intrinsic it is a petty thing to worship all these things.But why when the word worship simply what we value most?

It's because we know intrinsically, we ought to value without limit. If we worship things other than the Source of all Value and the Absolute being, we feel ashamed. We naturally feel ashamed.

That is why Atheists never would say yes they believe in gods, but just not a supernatural one. 

It's so shameful, to worship other than God, that no one wants to say it. We want to do away with the words worship and gods as if they never had meaning among society.

We laugh at people who took other than the Absolute being as gods, and some Atheists try to use it to show how stupid the claim of God is.

But why would it be funny if God didn't exist? 

What is so wrong about believing in higher beings than us that we value more than ourselves by a high amount?

And is it more redicoluous than valuing ourselves and others the most, to the extent we are own gods?


We naturally understand that Ultimate thing to be Valued is without limit and everything derives its value from it.


In reality, everything ought to pale in comparison to how much we value it to the ultimate being.

Let's see if people really realized they cannot do without valuing something the most and to which their hearts are enslaved to.

We all worship something, but what is truly worthy of enslaving our hearts but the beloved who is the Highest love?

Questions remain like: How are we glorifying this absolute being. The answer is the name of God. The name of God is the mysterious answer but if there is means to worship God, then it is by which is he is known and by the path of which love aims and heads towards accurately. The Name of God is God's Captain and leader who extends his light to all things.

The question is how do know we are connected? There is two ways to look at it, one to see the connection in oneself or to experience the connected to. If the former, the question is what is connected to and what it is glorifying....and how did it get connected to us and all things that glorify God. 

If the connected to, the question is how are we connected?

These go together, the connected to and the connector.

The connected to is the named, and the connector is the name, the connected to is what we are being led and driven to, while the connection is the leader and driver.

May peace be upon you. May his blessings and his mercy be upon you.

Oh my God, I finally understand.

[Whateverist]

In all languages, there is always a concept of false gods or idols. 

Worship at the end is nothing but what we value the most.

If it's ourselves we value the most, then we are our own god, and if we have many things we value on par with each other like prestige, wealth, out of the love of the self, they are all gods and idols.

The question is, why do people then not call themselves, "Self-Worshipers" if they disbelieve in a Creator? Or "Human worshipers + sex worshippers + wealth worshipers" etc....

Because it intrinsic it is a petty thing to worship all these things.But why when the word worship simply what we value most?

It's because we know intrinsically, we ought to value without limit. If we worship things other than the Source of all Value and the Absolute being, we feel ashamed. We naturally feel ashamed.

That is why Atheists never would say yes they believe in gods, but just not a supernatural one. 

It's so shameful, to worship other than God, that no one wants to say it. We want to do away with the words worship and gods as if they never had meaning among society.

We laugh at people who took other than the Absolute being as gods, and some Atheists try to use it to show how stupid the claim of God is.

But why would it be funny if God didn't exist? 

What is so wrong about believing in higher beings than us that we value more than ourselves by a high amount?

And is it more redicoluous than valuing ourselves and others the most, to the extent we are own gods?


We naturally understand that Ultimate thing to be Valued is without limit and everything derives its value from it.


In reality, everything ought to pale in comparison to how much we value it to the ultimate being.

Let's see if people really realized they cannot do without valuing something the most and to which their hearts are enslaved to.

We all worship something, but what is truly worthy of enslaving our hearts but the beloved who is the Highest love?

Questions remain like: How are we glorifying this absolute being. The answer is the name of God. The name of God is the mysterious answer but if there is means to worship God, then it is by which is he is known and by the path of which love aims and heads towards accurately. The Name of God is God's Captain and leader who extends his light to all things.

The question is how do know we are connected? There is two ways to look at it, one to see the connection in oneself or to experience the connected to. If the former, the question is what is connected to and what it is glorifying....and how did it get connected to us and all things that glorify God. 

If the connected to, the question is how are we connected?

These go together, the connected to and the connector.

The connected to is the named, and the connector is the name, the connected to is what we are being led and driven to, while the connection is the leader and driver.

May peace be upon you. May his blessings and his mercy be upon you.

Kind of tl;dr but I read the title completely:  There is no doubt a god, the question is what is it?  I think you're on to something.  God belief sure has been wide spread for a long time, some might even say pernicious.  So what's that all about?

As modern people we understand of course that the physical world wasn't brought about by the tinkering of a magic sky fairy. So what is this god that so many speak of?

Obviously what we're really talking about is human activity which seems to point to something grand, but it is the human activity which we really know about .. not a something-from-nothing cosmic watch maker (cuz that would just be silly).  So to understand God you've got to investigate human development, consciousness and culture.  Fortunately Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung, James Hillman and others have already made some progress there.  It seems that God is a recurring figure in the theatre of the psyche.  The stories of the gods are really allegories of psychic creation and meaning making.

Good stuff, MK.

[Brian37]

In all languages, there is always a concept of false gods or idols. 

Worship at the end is nothing but what we value the most.

If it's ourselves we value the most, then we are our own god, and if we have many things we value on par with each other like prestige, wealth, out of the love of the self, they are all gods and idols.

The question is, why do people then not call themselves, "Self-Worshipers" if they disbelieve in a Creator? Or "Human worshipers + sex worshippers + wealth worshipers" etc....

Because it intrinsic it is a petty thing to worship all these things.But why when the word worship simply what we value most?

It's because we know intrinsically, we ought to value without limit. If we worship things other than the Source of all Value and the Absolute being, we feel ashamed. We naturally feel ashamed.

That is why Atheists never would say yes they believe in gods, but just not a supernatural one. 

It's so shameful, to worship other than God, that no one wants to say it. We want to do away with the words worship and gods as if they never had meaning among society.

We laugh at people who took other than the Absolute being as gods, and some Atheists try to use it to show how stupid the claim of God is.

But why would it be funny if God didn't exist? 

What is so wrong about believing in higher beings than us that we value more than ourselves by a high amount?

And is it more redicoluous than valuing ourselves and others the most, to the extent we are own gods?


We naturally understand that Ultimate thing to be Valued is without limit and everything derives its value from it.


In reality, everything ought to pale in comparison to how much we value it to the ultimate being.

Let's see if people really realized they cannot do without valuing something the most and to which their hearts are enslaved to.

We all worship something, but what is truly worthy of enslaving our hearts but the beloved who is the Highest love?

Questions remain like: How are we glorifying this absolute being. The answer is the name of God. The name of God is the mysterious answer but if there is means to worship God, then it is by which is he is known and by the path of which love aims and heads towards accurately. The Name of God is God's Captain and leader who extends his light to all things.

The question is how do know we are connected? There is two ways to look at it, one to see the connection in oneself or to experience the connected to. If the former, the question is what is connected to and what it is glorifying....and how did it get connected to us and all things that glorify God. 

If the connected to, the question is how are we connected?

These go together, the connected to and the connector.

The connected to is the named, and the connector is the name, the connected to is what we are being led and driven to, while the connection is the leader and driver.

May peace be upon you. May his blessings and his mercy be upon you.

No no no no no no,

Our resident theists also make the same arguments, our resident Christians as well.

Roadrunner and Catholic Lady and Neo and Steve also argue "most people believe".

I agree most humans do. But that is not because a real god exists, or that any religion is required. It is because humans get sold the religions of their parents. It is much easier for a human to buy what they are sold before they can question it than it is to question from the start when they don't have all the information. Humans at birth are not born with adult thinking skills.

That is what makes it easy for an adult to convince a child Santa is real. That is also why Ponzi schemes work. If you know more than your mark, even if it is just more awesome sounding lingo , or you are just as deluded as your mark who is less informed, but your mark isn't as equal to you as far as information, you have the upper hand. Convincing another human being is easy. Convincing an informed human being when they know better is , much harder. 

Most humans would not be theists if they were born with the knowledge of world history and world science. The problem is most humans are not. Trust in humans is a double edge sword. It does produce safety in numbers, but when you know nothing, your well meaning parents can pass on to you the falsehood their parents sold them.

[Brian37]

Prove there is one first.  Scientifically.  Have him show up in person.  Until then all you're doing is mental masturbation.

I wouldn't argue it like that. While I agree humans make up all gods, at the same time I have not lived the rest of my future yet so I don't know if I would suffer things like PTSD, mental illness, brain damage or disease that might affect my brain. I can only say because I am lucid right now, I don't see much of a chance of converting while lucid. 

Dawkins a few years back said he wanted his last words recorded so nobody could claim he had a deathbed conversion. No fucking way would I expect anyone to rely on my words when I am not in tact while I am drugged up or in mental decline. 

I would simply leave it at "prove it", and leave the "Have him show up" part out.

[WinterHold]

https://atheistforums.org/thread-48253-p...pid1528379
More seeds? Eggs?

[Mister Agenda]

I think whoever came up with the term without belief in god(s) didn't take into consideration, what the word worship always meant.

I just disproved Atheism. It's impossible. You welcome.

I used to kind of like you MK, but you've turned into such an asshole lately. What happened?

[Nay_Sayer]

There is no doubt god is the Flying Spaghetti Monster Mystic. The question is why do you continue to deny him and risk eternal boiling?

---

Prove there is one first.  Scientifically.  Have him show up in person.  Until then all you're doing is mental masturbation.

I wouldn't argue it like that. While I agree humans make up all gods, at the same time I have not lived the rest of my future yet so I don't know if I would suffer things like PTSD, mental illness, brain damage or disease that might affect my brain. I can only say because I am lucid right now, I don't see much of a chance of converting while lucid. 

Dawkins a few years back said he wanted his last words recorded so nobody could claim he had a deathbed conversion. No fucking way would I expect anyone to rely on my words when I am not in tact while I am drugged up or in mental decline. 

I would simply leave it at "prove it", and leave the "Have him show up" part out.

His english is poor he meant to say he left soft piles of crap everywhere, You've been enjoying them for snacks, What gives?