The false self and our knowledge of it's deception proves God.

[Mystic]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even you Khem. I am even willing to grant that you would be justified in believing some things to be more praiseworthy than others. Belief in a transcendent hierarchy of values is, after all, a properly basic belief. However, a conviction that there is no ultimate transcendent value is in conflict with the opinion that there are values. All I am saying is unless you appeal to some transcendent source of values your opinion is unwarrented.

I don't see why values must logically have a transcendent source. It's logically possible for values come from within rather than without.

If you can show how this is rationally possible in a way or form, without God as the source, then show it. Otherwise, Theists here have all argued why it's not possible and we have shown clear reasoning on this part.

We didn't argue with arguments that we don't know how it's possible, therefore it's not.  So please don't bring back the claim is on us. We have brought various angles and proofs showing why God is needed.

If you can show one possible explanation of how it's possible without God, then go ahead.  You would have refuted one of the arguments from most of the Theists on here.

[GrandizerII]

We didn't argue with arguments that we don't know how it's possible, therefore it's not.  So please don't bring back the claim is on us. We have brought various angles and proofs showing why God is needed.

Ok, which posts should I examine to see if this is so? Post numbers please.

Otherwise, by default, it seems logically possible for values to originate from within.

[Mystic]

We didn't argue with arguments that we don't know how it's possible, therefore it's not.  So please don't bring back the claim is on us. We have brought various angles and proofs showing why God is needed.

Ok, which posts should I examine to see if this is so? Post numbers please.

Otherwise, by default, it seems logically possible for values to originate from within.

Here is one thread with objective morality (same argument can apply as well that morality and value are interlinked):

https://atheistforums.org/thread-41776.html

Here is where I went through a serious investigation and crisis of faith: https://atheistforums.org/thread-15323-p...#pid355134  if you read the conversation, they will show why I was in a crisis when I was an Agnostic. I suggest to read that thread if not anything else. It was a discussion where I really wished there could be meaning because at that time I was in crisis of disbelief.

This thread was made after clarity and guidance and there is a good conversation: https://atheistforums.org/thread-40867.html

There is this thread: https://atheistforums.org/thread-40783.h...ight=value

Many more.

[GrandizerII]

Here is one thread with objective morality (same argument can apply as well that morality and value are interlinked):

https://atheistforums.org/thread-41776.html

Ok, I had a view of that PragerU video. One problem with the professor's argument against Godless morality is that he failed to consider the possibility of morality having multiple sources/standards rather than just one of the sources/standards listed in the video. So first link fails.

Which one of the other links you posted would you like me to address next? Because in none of them do I see anything demonstrating that God is needed for morality.

[Mystic]

Here is one thread with objective morality (same argument can apply as well that morality and value are interlinked):

https://atheistforums.org/thread-41776.html

Ok, I had a view of that PragerU video. One problem with the professor's argument against Godless morality is that he failed to consider the possibility of morality having multiple sources/standards rather than just one of the sources/standards listed in the video. So first link fails.

Which one of the other links you posted would you like me to address next? Because in none of them do I see anything demonstrating that God is needed for morality.

Read the 2nd thread, I linked to when I had a crisis of faith.

[GrandizerII]

From the second link you provided, you said the following:

This is a difficult topic for me. I think perhaps it's true value needs a designer/creator/eternal source, but there is nothing wrong with acting in hope there is a higher value to us, even if it we are not sure there is value.

In other words, living according to hoped fantasy, is perhaps our last hope, if there is no way to know we have value.

We can hope we do have a soul and act is we are the same person.

There is nothing wrong with hope. We can hope we do have an objective value were are not aware of.

We can act according to that hoped fantasy. And there would be nothing wrong with that.

So what do you want me to get out of this exactly?

Whatever the point you're making, it must be pointed out that suffering a crisis because of a lack of belief in X does not logically mean that X exists. Nor does "X ought to exist" logically mean that "X exists".

[AceBoogie]

I am the only God that I find to be worthy of worship.

Instead of diluting my essence with stories and worship in false gods I choose to be honest about my human nature. I'd rather be honest with myself about my urges, thoughts, desires, feelings and whatnot... even if some of those things contradict one another. Self-awareness is the key.

What the religionists hope to do is reconcile some of these contradictory feelings through stories and fairy tales instead of just admitting that we are animals and that not everything we think and feel is going to make sense.

Hail Satan!

[Brian37]

I am the only God that I find to be worthy of worship.

Instead of diluting my essence with stories and worship in false gods I choose to be honest about my human nature. I'd rather be honest with myself about my urges, thoughts, desires, feelings and whatnot... even if some of those things contradict one another. Self-awareness is the key.

What the religionists hope to do is reconcile some of these contradictory feelings through stories and fairy tales instead of just admitting that we are animals and that not everything we think and feel is going to make sense.

Hail Satan!

Humans cannot be fictional things either, sure they can dream up fiction, but you cannot be a God anymore than you can be Superman. Worship of a God is the same as worship of the state, both foolish. Worship of yourself also. There is a huge difference between valuing oneself and being self centered. Trump worships himself, nothing any really empathetic person should aspire to be in reality.

Satan doesn't exist either so I do find the new age nutters trying to make "Satanism" a new religion just as silly. 

I am sure your post was sarcastic, but still, this was for anyone who might read this, not just for you.

[Mystic]

From the second link you provided, you said the following:

This is a difficult topic for me. I think perhaps it's true value needs a designer/creator/eternal source, but there is nothing wrong with acting in hope there is a higher value to us, even if it we are not sure there is value.

In other words, living according to hoped fantasy, is perhaps our last hope, if there is no way to know we have value.

We can hope we do have a soul and act is we are the same person.

There is nothing wrong with hope. We can hope we do have an objective value were are not aware of.

We can act according to that hoped fantasy. And there would be nothing wrong with that.

So what do you want me to get out of this exactly?

Whatever the point you're making, it must be pointed out that suffering a crisis because of a lack of belief in X does not logically mean that X exists. Nor does "X ought to exist" logically mean that "X exists".

If you want to read the thread do so, if you don't, just let me know you don't want to read it.

[AceBoogie]

Humans cannot be fictional things either, sure they can dream up fiction, but you cannot be a God anymore than you can be Superman. Worship of a God is the same as worship of the state, both foolish. Worship of yourself also. There is a huge difference between valuing oneself and being self centered. Trump worships himself, nothing any really empathetic person should aspire to be in reality.

Satan doesn't exist either so I do find the new age nutters trying to make "Satanism" a new religion just as silly. 

I am sure your post was sarcastic, but still, this was for anyone who might read this, not just for you.

Eh, yes and no. I was being a bit dramatic, sure, but I truly am a Satanist.

I consider myself to be the center of my own universe and I devote my life to pursuing happiness and fulfillment in this world.

Do I literally believe I am a god in the sense that I have supernatural powers and can create and destroy things with my mind? No. That's just silly.

I do however believe in being honest with myself about my animal nature and I believe in doing what is best for me in life, including helping those that I love and care about. The point I was attempting to make with MK is that it is in our nature to attempt to reconcile certain ideas by ascribing different things to "god." But if we are completely honest with ourselves I think we'll find that even when we prayed to "god" as theists, we were simply praying to some higher version of ourselves, some fantasy version of us that exists only within our minds.

That's why people tend to ascribe qualities to "god" that coincide with their personal beliefs. It's simply a projection of your own will... your own thoughts and feelings. That's why I say that I'm God and I worship me. I think there is nothing wrong with being self centered as long as you are aware that you are self centered and you are disciplined enough to control your own ego.

In a nutshell, Satanism isn't about worshiping any sort of deity. It's about being the best version of you that you can be, becoming a god so to speak, and pursuing fulfillment in this life by accepting yourself as an animal and allowing yourself to be as honest with you as you can be... then and only then do I believe that I can truly be happy in following my desires and goals. That's just for me. To each their own.