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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 3:27 am
(April 14, 2017 at 3:23 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: And I'm just getting started. Truly, truly, I say to you, Christians would have easier job defending Charles Manson for he is a man of greater virtue then God of the Bible.
lol Difference between Yahweh and Manson is Manson never killed anyone.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 4:22 am
(April 14, 2017 at 3:27 am)AceBoogie Wrote: (April 14, 2017 at 3:23 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: And I'm just getting started. Truly, truly, I say to you, Christians would have easier job defending Charles Manson for he is a man of greater virtue then God of the Bible.
lol Difference between Yahweh and Manson is Manson never killed anyone.
And also he spoke about love which balances the bad things. Like:
"Death is the greatest form of love."
- Charles Manson
Indeed, Charles Manson does sound awfully a lot like Christian theologians.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 4:26 am
(April 14, 2017 at 4:22 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: And also he spoke about love which balances the bad things. Like:
"Death is the greatest form of love."
- Charles Manson
Indeed, Charles Manson does sound awfully a lot like Christian theologians.
Haha! Actually, Manson was pretty obsessed with Christian mythology. He would force his lackies to drop acid and reenact the crucifixion of jesus as some means of conditioning them to see him as their savior or something, idk. Dude was fucked in the head.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 8:32 am
(April 11, 2017 at 10:04 pm)AceBoogie Wrote: For Christians, Muslims, Jews, anyone really...
How do you guys feel about the violent/hateful verses in the Torah, Quran and Bible?
How do you reconcile these contradicting ideas? That Christanity/Islam/Judiasm is peaceful, yet their scriptures contain verses that would make even the most violent sociopath cringe a bit....?
Do you have examples of accepted "bad" behavior?
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 8:40 am
(This post was last modified: April 14, 2017 at 8:45 am by Harry Nevis.)
(April 13, 2017 at 5:00 pm)SteveII Wrote: (April 13, 2017 at 4:29 pm)AceBoogie Wrote: Fixed that for you.
Setting aside that you used the word genocide wrong, you think people whose "thoughts and hearts were evil all the time" should be put in time-out? Are you saying that God was not justified in wiping the slate clean? On what do you base that?
Yeah, all those infants and children running around with evil hearts. Shame god couldn't know what would happen when he made them. Justice, indeed... Love, indeed...
(April 14, 2017 at 8:32 am)Drich Wrote: (April 11, 2017 at 10:04 pm)AceBoogie Wrote: For Christians, Muslims, Jews, anyone really...
How do you guys feel about the violent/hateful verses in the Torah, Quran and Bible?
How do you reconcile these contradicting ideas? That Christanity/Islam/Judiasm is peaceful, yet their scriptures contain verses that would make even the most violent sociopath cringe a bit....?
Do you have examples of accepted "bad" behavior?
Leaving yourself a nice out, aren't you? Anything he mentions, you'll just claim it's not accepted, or he's not reading it correctly. He didn't mention behaviour or what was accepted, just that there are violent and horrific passages in the bible and the Koran.
It seems the only argument you ever use.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 10:08 am
(April 14, 2017 at 8:40 am)Harry Nevis Wrote: (April 13, 2017 at 5:00 pm)SteveII Wrote: Setting aside that you used the word genocide wrong, you think people whose "thoughts and hearts were evil all the time" should be put in time-out? Are you saying that God was not justified in wiping the slate clean? On what do you base that?
Yeah, all those infants and children running around with evil hearts. Shame god couldn't know what would happen when he made them. Justice, indeed... Love, indeed...
(April 14, 2017 at 8:32 am)Drich Wrote: Do you have examples of accepted "bad" behavior?
Leaving yourself a nice out, aren't you? Anything he mentions, you'll just claim it's not accepted, or he's not reading it correctly. He didn't mention behaviour or what was accepted, just that there are violent and horrific passages in the bible and the Koran.
It seems the only argument you ever use.
Not an argument sport it is a question.
I do not see things the way he does and I am asking for a point of clarity in order to be able to provide the needed explanation.
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 10:45 am
(April 13, 2017 at 6:06 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote: (April 13, 2017 at 5:00 pm)SteveII Wrote: Setting aside that you used the word genocide wrong, you think people whose "thoughts and hearts were evil all the time" should be put in time-out? Are you saying that God was not justified in wiping the slate clean? On what do you base that?
What about the infants and children? Christians always gloss that over. I'm pretty sure there's no way to argue that their deaths at least, are clear cut murder. Or would be if any of the bible actually happened.
Yahweh punishes the innocent along with the guilty.
Why did Yahweh not, for instance, make personal appearances to these peoples to get them to change their ways? They'd never seen nor heard from him, so why would they follow his rules, which they may not even know about?
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Is death a punishment when you are talking about an immortal soul? In fact, it was a gift that God gave the innocent that they did not grow up and become like their parents and risk the permanent separation from God. God always has the eternal perspective in mind.
How do you know they did not know of him? Noah certainly did.
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 11:28 am
(This post was last modified: April 14, 2017 at 11:33 am by The Industrial Atheist.)
(April 14, 2017 at 10:45 am)SteveII Wrote: (April 13, 2017 at 6:06 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote: What about the infants and children? Christians always gloss that over. I'm pretty sure there's no way to argue that their deaths at least, are clear cut murder. Or would be if any of the bible actually happened.
Yahweh punishes the innocent along with the guilty.
Why did Yahweh not, for instance, make personal appearances to these peoples to get them to change their ways? They'd never seen nor heard from him, so why would they follow his rules, which they may not even know about?
Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk
Is death a punishment when you are talking about an immortal soul? In fact, it was a gift that God gave the innocent that they did not grow up and become like their parents and risk the permanent separation from God. God always has the eternal perspective in mind.
How do you know they did not know of him? Noah certainly did. Al Qaeda used a similar argument to justify Muslim casualties. I doubt that peoples far away from the Jews knew anything about Yahweh. But what I meant is-Wouldn't it be better to make personal appearances to these peoples before things got so bad rather than just let things go to pot and then kill everyone? Wouldn't that be the more moral solution for a being that can see the future?
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 11:30 am
(April 14, 2017 at 10:45 am)SteveII Wrote: (April 13, 2017 at 6:06 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote: What about the infants and children? Christians always gloss that over. I'm pretty sure there's no way to argue that their deaths at least, are clear cut murder. Or would be if any of the bible actually happened.
Yahweh punishes the innocent along with the guilty.
Why did Yahweh not, for instance, make personal appearances to these peoples to get them to change their ways? They'd never seen nor heard from him, so why would they follow his rules, which they may not even know about?
Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk
Is death a punishment when you are talking about an immortal soul? In fact, it was a gift that God gave the innocent that they did not grow up and become like their parents and risk the permanent separation from God. God always has the eternal perspective in mind.
How do you know they did not know of him? Noah certainly did.
It was the GOOD kind of genocide.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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RE: How do religious folks reconcile violent concepts in "peaceful" Abrahami...
April 14, 2017 at 11:44 am
(April 14, 2017 at 11:28 am)Industrial Lad Wrote: (April 14, 2017 at 10:45 am)SteveII Wrote: Is death a punishment when you are talking about an immortal soul? In fact, it was a gift that God gave the innocent that they did not grow up and become like their parents and risk the permanent separation from God. God always has the eternal perspective in mind.
How do you know they did not know of him? Noah certainly did. Al Qaeda used a similar argument to justify Muslim casualties. I doubt that peoples far away from the Jews knew anything about Yahweh. But what I meant is-Wouldn't it be better to make personal appearances to these peoples before things got so bad rather than just let things go to pot and then kill everyone? Wouldn't that be the more moral solution for a being that can see the future?
The Muslim example does not apply. This is a decision God made (with the benefit of omniscience) and God carried out.
God would be aware of the counterfactuals of appearing to them and entreating them to turn from their wicked ways. It appears wiping them all out and starting with a new generation that would honor God was the most moral thing to do. If God weighs all the future lives, doing nothing would result in far far more people in Hell, perhaps an intervention would reduce that number, but again, eternal perspective.
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