I Used To Be A Fan But I Am Now Shocked, Disgusted And Appalled With Sam Harris

[Foxaèr]

Yep. Sorry but just too TL.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TL

??????

[Whateverist]

Yep. Sorry but just too TL.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TL

??????

As in TL;DR

[Edwardo Piet]

You throw around this word bigot and it starts to lose it's meaning. Yeah he might be an asshole, but I don't think he's advocating that trans people are less than human. He's not exactly a trans rights activist, but I think his point (Murray) is that the regressive response to disagreement by progressives gets often taken way too far, where it's not even about disagreement, it's about punishment.

You sort of proved his point here, Hammy.

If by "proved his point" you mean I "took offence at him finding transgender people being called weirdos and men with penises amusing", then yes.

No, I didn't prove his point. "Throwing around" the word "bigot" doesn't make it lose its meaning if you throw it around at people who are displaying bigotry.

---

I'm not sure what was so shocking or appalling in that clip.

Really? Referring to transgender people as "weirdos" who have penises might have something to do with it.

---

Not necessarily legal punishment, but personal, retributive punishment for not toeing the progressive line.

I am extremely anti-retributivism. I'm a consequentalist. The fact I am no longer a fan of him and being honest about his bigotry does not equate to "punishment" for fuck's sake.

I get not being a fan anymore,

So do you get what was shocking and appaling about the clip or not?

but this is the ideological purism that is going to give us Donald Trump for 8 years. It is toxic in the liberal movement, I think.

Oh not more of this crap about the liberals being to blame for the right-wing fuckwits who voted Trump in. Sure, we may piss people off further and with good intentions it may have increased votes for Donald Trump... but what's the primary reason the bigoted fuckwits voted for Donald Trump? Their being bigoted fuckwits.

Are you honestly going to pretend that there aren't many, many many bigots in America who all strongly approve of the bigoted language Trump used against Mexicans?

The left will nominate someone who is 90-95% progressive, but once voted against party lines or isn't a proponent of one cause, and they will be demonized by a sector of progressives as not good enough, and hatred will brew, meanwhile the right sits back and votes along party lines because the numbers dictate it.

I don't understand this crazy fantasy that there's a such thing as the extreme left. The people who are supposedly so liberal that they are trying to control people's speech aren't liberal. Trying to control speech is the very opposite of liberal.

By expressing my own honest offence at what I honestly consider bigotry... I am excercising my own free speech not controlling anyone else's.

Murray and Harris can say what they like... and I can respond honestly with what I think about it.

Seriously dude

You don't see what's shocking or appalling about the clip?

You think I proved Murray's point because I found the bigoted language he used bigoted?

No, his point was about people trying to control people's free speech but I'm not trying to do that. I'm being honest about what I think of his speech. About what I think of him calling transgender people "weirdos" about what I think about him marginalizing the very real issue of transgenderism and all the hatred and bigotry directed against them.

The fact he thinks it's not a priority and not important when it very much is a priority and very much is important... that + his disgustingly ignorant insults against a whole group of people ....just betrays his ignorance. I am not "proving" his point for him because I am not overreacting. I am shocked by his bigoted fuckwitery when this guy is supposed to be an intellectual not a transphobe.

---

I think you're way over reacting.
I listened to much of the discussion before and after the clip and the main subject is political correctness and it is Murray's lack of political correctness that Harris is laughing at. Transgender issues are actually not discussed at all other than the rant that Douglas uses to show that people can be considered a bigot for not wanting to sleep with Kaitlynn Jenner. It seems pretty clear to me that Harris is amused by this and not by the ideas that trans people are not somehow immoral. The rant itself is used as an example of the vilification of those who don't tow an "acceptable" view.

You ignore the part about him calling transgender people weirdos and men with penises and you ignore the fact that Harris just laughed through that rather than educating Murray about gender issues. It's pretty obvious that he laughed through it and didn't take offence to it because he holds the same highly ignorant "opinion" (it's more about being ignorantly wrong about the facts than an "opinion").

---

Am I the only one here who finds transgenderism to be a serious issue that shouldn't be trivalized like this and finds calling all transgender people "weirdos" to be thunderously ignorant and bigoted?

Am I the only one here who watches the clip and sees the bigoted language against a whole group of people for what it is? There's no sense in which it's not bigoted to hold the opinions that all transgender people are "weirdos" and all transwomen are "men with penises". Holding such opinions against a whole group of people is the very essence of bigotry.

You do realize that referring to transgender people as "weirdos" is as bigoted as referring to black people with the N word?

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't think that it would surprise or appall me to find that -any- given person was a dirty, dirty bigot.  I'm running on the assumption that there's alot more dirty, dirty bigotry in the world and in people than we might be willing to acknowledge, though.   The nicest people are very often the dirtiest bigots.  True evil is as familiar and welcoming as apple pie, lol. 

[Edwardo Piet]

No, the nicest people are not very often the dirtiest bigots.

[The Grand Nudger]

Never met any sweet old ladies? Ever wonder what they think about the blacks, or pakistanis, or trans? I just think that our own bigotries are more than capable of blindsiding us. They run along unrecognized or unacknowledged, but there they are, you know?

[paulpablo]

Never met any sweet old ladies?  Ever wonder what they think about the blacks, or pakistanis, or trans?  I just think that our own bigotries are more than capable of blindsiding us.  They run along unrecognized or unacknowledged, but there they are, you know?

In a similar way, ever met any really charming nice pakistanis and wondered what they think about gays, Jews, trans, Bengalis, or Indians.

[The Grand Nudger]

LOL, I've heard all manner of sweet people, all over the word, express their deeply held bigotries Paul.   I'd expect pakistanis to be more of the same on that count, though I've never actually met a pakistani in person.

[Edwardo Piet]

Never met any sweet old ladies?  Ever wonder what they think about the blacks, or pakistanis, or trans?  I just think that our own bigotries are more than capable of blindsiding us.  They run along unrecognized or unacknowledged, but there they are, you know?

The bigoted aspects are not "nice".

And yes bigoted old people are annoying. Not "sweet".

I'm not a fan of bigots.

[J a c k]

but this is the ideological purism that is going to give us Donald Trump for 8 years. It is toxic in the liberal movement, I think.

Oh not more of this crap about the liberals being to blame for the right-wing fuckwits who voted Trump in. Sure if we may piss people off further and with good intentions it may have increased votes for Donald Trump... but what's the primary reason the bigoted fuckwits voted for Donald Trump? Their being bigoted fuckwits.

Are you honestly going to pretend that there aren't many, many many bigots in America who all strongly approve of the bigoted language Trump used against Mexicans?

The left will nominate someone who is 90-95% progressive, but once voted against party lines or isn't a proponent of one cause, and they will be demonized by a sector of progressives as not good enough, and hatred will brew, meanwhile the right sits back and votes along party lines because the numbers dictate it.

I don't understand this crazy fantasy that there's a such thing as the extreme left. The people who are supposedly so liberal that they are trying to control people's speech aren't liberal. Trying to control speech is the very opposite of liberal.

hammy, no.
Many liberals did in fact fuck up with their purist mentality. It did cost us the election. It wasn't just bigots voting for Trump. It was liberal purists crucifying Clinton and voting for, say, Jill Stein. There is such a thing as the extreme left and that is not a fantasy. Sorry, honey. Also, I just wrote a shit ton of stuff and accidentally closed the window. Fml lol