I Used To Be A Fan But I Am Now Shocked, Disgusted And Appalled With Sam Harris

[The Grand Nudger]

Ha!  We have a bottomless well at our disposal for purposes of excuse.  

[Edwardo Piet]

Hammy,

Nobody's perfect.  Even you and I.

Yeah I know. I'm certainly not perfect myself because I can't help but think that if he was in his 20s instead of his 40s he's probably be more progressive about transphobia but many would say I'm being ageist by sterotyping like that

But I think there are a reason why stereotypes exist and saying that on average the younger generation is statistically more progressive about these things than the older generation is different to saying something like "older generations are backward" or something like that. That would be ageist.

A bit like it's not racist for me to say that the fact a lot of the fastest runners and best boxers are African American isn't a coincidence because races do have physical genetic differences and competences even though mentally intelligence levels between races is the same.

But if I said "Black people after faster and stronger than white people" that would be racist

And, another example is, on average asian races are more (physically) sensitive to alcohol and more likely to be lactose intolerant... it's not racist to talk about that statistical average if it's based on evidence. But saying "Asians are pussies with alcohol and they can't even drink milk" would be massively racist.

Just like saying that "on average transwomen are physically stronger than ciswomen because before they have transitioned they have the physical strength of a cisman and even after they have transitioned they still have some remnants of it... and on average cismen are physically stronger than ciswomen" is not transphobic or sexist... but saying "Transwomen are way too strong for sports they're like man strength so they can't even be real women they're like as strong as men which is much stronger than women because women are weak and should stick to girl stuff." would be very sexist and transphobic.

So basically, there's a difference between stereotyping and statistical averages.

And I do think there's a high probability that if Sam Harris was in his 20s or simply hung around with more people of the younger generation he'd be less likely to be so ignorant of transgender issues... and it's simply because transgender issues are being fully understood more recently and more recently=since the younger generation has become adult.

Of course there are plenty of progressive older people and narrow minded younger people, and the fact I recognize that and am merely talking about statistics and probabilites and wondering about it... that's what makes the difference.

And of course amongst the younger generation there is a lot of the SJW stuff mixed in with the actually progressive people who genuinely care... and there will be SJW transgenders too. But it's one thing to talk about SJWs and people who take it too far both cis people and trans people.... but it's another to suggest that they're all SJWs and that it's "going too far" to fucking understand transgender issues. The fact that transpeople's issues are so disrespected and dismissed that esteemed public intellectuals can call transwomen "men with penises" and make ridiculous assumpions like "You have to be attracted to them otherwise it's transphobic" which is utter bullshit and based on nothing (What is he basing that on? He's (Murray is) making that shit up. And referring to the entire community as "they" and lumping them all together is disgusting and the very essence of bigotry).... but anyway the fact that esteemed public intellectuals can call transwomen "men with penises" and think that's perfectly fine while another public intellectual (Sam Harris) laughs along and doesn't even bother to point out how bigoted his friend is being... just shows exactly WHY it IS a big issue and not a small issue (it's not like transphobia is extremely rare and almost always taken seriously. It's very common and rarely taken seriously, hell it's not even being taken seriously by esteemed public intellectuals)... this is WHY consciousness raising needs to happen. A LOT of consciousness raising in fact. Because the message is falling on so many deaf ears that even Sam motherfucking Harris (who is usually very smart) is being a bigoted idiot fuckface.

But yeah he is very smart on many issues and I do agree with him with most things but there are a few things I strongly disagree with him on (and in this case I am disgusted with him).... but yeah I've got over the emotion a little because I just think his mind needs opening and at least with Sam Harris I do feel it is capable of opening. He really needs educating and when he finally understands he needs to apologize for his harmful ignorance and complicity.

I wouldn't say I don't like him anymore, I like him for most things but I am facepalming so hard at his bigoted ignorance here. Sigh. I agree with him on enough things that a sample of him in one of my songs now



But someone here who really is an utter fucking cretin and an unforgivable right-wing bigoted disgusting fuckhead... is Douglas Murray. And the fact he's Sam Harris' "friend" is one of the things that disturbs me the most.

But the reason why I am not insanely disgusted with Sam Harris for liking Murray is because maybe Harris is a bit like I used to be: Someone who is willing to keep the peace with and get around with anyone non-abusive. Like even racists and all sorts. I used to try to be everyone's friend as long as they didn't abuse or hurt me. Nowadays I'm a lot more selective. I tired to befriend everyone in the past.  But fuck that.

---

I am shocked, appaled and highly surprised at the myopic views Sam Harris has on gender.

Why, does he think something crazy, like there's two genders, or something?

Yes.

There's two biological sexes but there's scientific evidence that transgenderism is a real biological thing. There are biological men born with the physical brain of a woman and vice-versa. It's a real thing. There's a legitimate biological basis for why something like feeling like a woman trapped in a man's body happens. Because that's exactly what's going on biologically: A transwoman is often a woman with a cisman's body (and vice-versa).

You are an ignorant bigoted fuckface, and so is Paupablo for kudosing your post here. But that's not news to me I suspected as much

[paulpablo]

Hammy,

Nobody's perfect.  Even you and I.

A bit like it's not racist for me to say that the fact a lot of the fastest runners and best boxers are African American isn't a coincidence because races do have physical genetic differences and competences even though mentally intelligence levels between races is the same.

My bold.

I'm going to brave the shitstorm and get ready to be called a nazi bigot fuckface a few more times.

I don't see how this could be true.

If you acknowledge intelligence levels are measurable, I'm assuming this is the case since the claim is that they have been measured to be all the same.

And you acknowledge that race exists, then surely the odds of anything quantifiable being measured to be exactly the same among the races is going to be very low.

I understand when people are skeptical of IQ scores, and people saying that culture is why certain groups of Jews and Asians perform so well academically.

I've never seen anyone say that it's conclusive, everyone is equal when it comes to intelligence.

To me it would seem that it would be the same odds as measuring the average heights of groups of people and everyone scoring the exact same height down to decimal points.

It would make sense from a biological standpoint for races to be unequal when measuring any sort of quantifiable difference.

So if the brain is a body part like any other, and the traits of this body part are determined by genetic inheritance then why would it be any different from other body traits like running speed, height, body fat percentage and so on?

 I understand that it's easier to measure how fat someone is or how fast someone runs, but surely it's illogical to think that there are statistical differences among races in every part of the body except the brain, every race on the planet is exactly equal when it comes to intellectual performance.

[Edwardo Piet]

I would be facepalming but I expect you to say idiotic things.

IQ is absolutely not a measure of intelligence. Only idiots think it is

Brain plasticity makes differences between races mean nothing when it comes to intelligence. Most people have idiot brains but people of all races are capable of having intelligent brains and those brains make more and stronger connections and basically understand things deeper. Race and IQ say nothing about intelligence.

[paulpablo]

I would be facepalming but I expect you to say idiotic things.

IQ is absolutely not a measure of intelligence. Only idiots think it is

Brain plasticity makes differences between races mean nothing when it comes to intelligence. Most people have idiot brains but people of all races are capable of having intelligent brains and those brains make more and stronger connections and basically understand things deeper. Race and IQ say nothing about intelligence.

I just said in the post you're responding to that I understand the skepticism of IQ relating to intelligence.

My point is that if you have a quantifiable value, which is intelligence.

Your claim is that each race is equal in this quantifiable value.

So the questions I would raise are by what method are you measuring this value to end up with the results that each race is precisely equal in terms of intelligence if IQ isn't a valid measurement.

Also why would the brain be different from every other human body part.

If you measure average height, hand length, metabolism, different types of muscle fibers among the races they'll all be unequal/different. Even if it's down to a minuscule amount.

Even outside of the topic of race and intelligence if you have ANY sort of value that's quantifiable and and measurable and take ANY sort of groups of people to measure these quantities with, the odds of them having exactly the same quantity of this value are near enough impossible.

[Edwardo Piet]

If it's an intelligent person they are capable of understanding complex stuff regardless of their race.

[paulpablo]

If it's an intelligent person they are capable of understanding complex stuff regardless of their race.

There's no question of that.  The question was relating to your claim that intelligence is equal among races of people.

 mentally intelligence levels between races is the same.

If IQ isn't a reliable measure of intelligence then what measurement are you using to come to the conclusion of equality?

And also outside the realms of there being a supernatural regulator I can't imagine how any quantifiable traits could be equal among any different groups of people.

[Edwardo Piet]

Ultimate Capacity For Understanding ™ is what I call intelligence and that does indeed seem entirely genetic to me and have nothing to do with upbringing (upbringing can help unlock that capacity but the capacity itself is innate) but it seems completely random between the races. Intelligence is too complex to be measured accurately but I simply use common sense to tell quite easily that if there is any difference it's too negligible to even be worth discussing.

[Amarok]

Race Realism is I pile of BS

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2011/12/0...-rhetoric/

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2014/02/0...n-part-ii/

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/12/2...t-edition/

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2012/08/1...itability/

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2012/03/0...e-realism/

[paulpablo]

Ultimate Capacity For Understanding ™ is what I call intelligence and that does indeed seem entirely genetic to me and have nothing to do with upbringing (upbringing can help unlock that capacity but the capacity itself is innate) but it seems completely random between the races. Intelligence is too complex to be measured accurately but I simply use common sense to tell quite easily that if there is any difference it's too negligible to even be worth discussing.

It seems contradictory to say something is too complex to be measured accurately but it's also easy to use common sense to tell that there's not much difference between measurements.

If it's too complex to be measured with accuracy what method are you using for measurement to come to an accurate conclusion?

Intelligence is generally defined as understanding, learning, application of knowledge, expression, creativity, forward planning.

There are over represented groups in fields where intellect is a prime requisite for success, Jews and Asians for instance when it comes to Nobel prize winners, finance, academic achievements, careers in science and technology, law, media and entertainment, comedians, entrepreneurial success, medical fields, sales.

Not just in America or any specific country, with Jews especially this is especially true.  This is where the ideas of a Jewish conspiracy come from which I think is nonsense, I think they're just simply clever.

It's not really random in the sense that they're over represented in all of those fields, in a various countries and all of those fields require complex understanding, learning, creativity, forward planning, application of knowledge and so on.

At the very least, to me, it would seem to require more than common sense to come to a conclusion of near enough complete equality between racial groups and intelligence.

My point being purely that it's understandable to say race and intelligence are complex issues, but seemingly illogical to me to say it's easily observable by common sense to observe races are all equally intelligent.