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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 11:32 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2010 at 11:35 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(October 9, 2010 at 11:27 am)ib.me.ub Wrote: I mean, it is easier to take no responsibility.
I'm not talking about whether we do. I'm just saying how ultimate moral responsibility doesn't make any sense if there is no "free will". And whether free will exists or not is a question of fact, not values. So whether it's the "easy" way out or not is completely irrelevant.
(October 9, 2010 at 11:32 am)ib.me.ub Wrote: Not everything. But some things are, yes. You cannot put everthing into one basket, then assume it is the truth.
Can't you ever? Are you going to put the question of "should you ever put something all into one basket"? into one basket and hence contradict yourself?
You can do some thinking and ask yourself why on earth some things would be fated and others not.
A rock is always a rock and never not a rock, I'll put that into one basket thank you very much. Tautologies have to be true otherwise they're not tautological.
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 11:34 am
But you are assuming, from your point of view, there is no free will.
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 11:36 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2010 at 11:38 am by Edwardo Piet.)
No I'm not assuming at all. Free Will is logically impossible as I have already argued in the other poll.
Besides, free will is the assumption. It makes no more sense to say "Why not believe in free will? Why do I need a reason?" than it does to say "Why not believe in goblins? I assume it's logical to believe in them until they are proven false. No one has ever spotted them yet, that's all."
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 11:37 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2010 at 11:38 am by ib.me.ub.)
Quote:You can do some thinking and ask yourself why on earth some things would be fated and others not.
Semantics EVF.
Under a (one of many) dictionary defintion of fate, we are all fated to die. Under a different defintion it means something else.
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 11:39 am
I'm talking about predestination obviously. It would be ludicrous for me to ask "Do you believe some things will happen?".
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 11:39 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2010 at 11:40 am by ib.me.ub.)
So, can I choose to answer you or not. Or was this always going to happen. Why did this happen. Why are we talking?
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 11:43 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2010 at 11:44 am by Edwardo Piet.)
Well on the matter of free will I mean that it is impossible for you to choose differently when you are doing something because when you are doing it you are doing it. And you can't change what you've done because you've already done that, obviously. And you can't change whatever you're going to do in the future whether it's determined or not, because you haven't done those things yet, whatever they are.
So you can't change what you are doing in the present, past or future. We have options but what we choose to do we just do because of who we are, we can't do other than what we're doing. It should be obviously really but sadly that obviousness slips away to so many people, and has done to myself in the past.
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 11:50 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2010 at 11:51 am by ib.me.ub.)
Ok, but we have the ability to think ahead. We are aware of what is going to happen, within reason, and plan for it! We can think about what we are going to do. Once it is done, it cannot be changed. But it can be changed before the fact.
What you say is true in regards to the present, past & future, in ragards to relative time. Awarness seems to have altered that slighty however.
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 12:09 pm
You can do differently in future, and learn from past mistakes. But in the past when you made a mistake, for example, you couldn't have freely chosen to do other than what you are doing because then you were doing it.
Yes we have the ability to think ahead, yes we can choose things, yes we have a will. The question is whether any of this is "free" or freely chosen in other words. Well, in the sense that we cannot "do otherwise" at any given moment, no we don't have free will.
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RE: Do you believe in "Fate"?
October 9, 2010 at 12:11 pm
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2010 at 12:13 pm by ib.me.ub.)
You will find they mean the same thing.
Will
–noun
1.
the faculty of conscious and especially of deliberate action; the power of control the mind has over its own actions: the freedom of the will.
2.
power of choosing one's own actions: to have a strong or a weak will.
3.
the act or process of using or asserting one's choice; volition: My hands are obedient to my will.
Free will
–noun
1.
free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.
2.
Philosophy. the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces.
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