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Christian best friend asks me to reconsider
#41
RE: Christian best friend asks me to reconsider
(June 11, 2017 at 12:06 am)Industrial Lad Wrote: Hope you can figure that out Jamie. I haven't gone out and told anyone from my old church about my being an atheist, but I do get notifications from blasphemous Industrial bands that I think they can see.

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

Yeah, for me I feel it will cause more pain for them than good. I remember when I was a christian how worried and desperate I was to get people to know about eternity. 
A made up letter that was used in a sermon comes to mind: 
I'm in heaven and I receive a letter from a friend thats not saved and ended up in hell. The letter was sooooo sad I always cried. She pleads "Why did you not tell me of christ when we were together so often? She lists all the beautiful bonding experiences we shared on earth and keeps asking "WHY?"  It's riddled with guilt and it always worked on me. Well she's burning in hell so these were valid questions. 
My family, my dad mostly, are driven by these fears and pray constantly for my salvation. Sometimes I just say I'm good and happy, but that's not enough because eternity is lurking around the corner. Ugh.
I was a born-again christian for many years then I got woke.. and now life is better in so many ways. It's taking me time to see my value and find my voice, but the reward is liberating knowing my path is not dictated or controlled by fear of death and the unknown.  Casting off the shackles of religion is pretty fucking awesome. The beautiful people I've met on this forum have more heart and compassion than any group of people I've been apart of. So back off Jesus and followers, because this bitch is done with Chu.  Shy 
  
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#42
RE: Christian best friend asks me to reconsider
(June 9, 2017 at 5:04 pm)JamieB Wrote: Christian best friend asks me to reconsider

Hey if any Christian asks me to reconsider or open my heart to Jesus I answer "sure, but only if you'd be willing to become a Hindu. You'd still get to heaven."
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#43
RE: Christian best friend asks me to reconsider
(June 9, 2017 at 5:04 pm)JamieB Wrote: I had a long breakfast with my christian best friend from high school the other day. I thought we agreed to disagree, but I got this long text of concern today. Its the same plea I've heard all my life, but she made it personal. She was diagnosed bi-polar and schizophrenic, so her experiences of hell felt very real to her. Maybe I should let her believe I got my ticket to heaven for her sake, but that is really hard for me. Here's her text:




This is exactly the kind of awkward stuff that comes up when you deal with grown people with special feelings about a secret friend for which we have no analogue experience.  Avoiding spilling the beans about Santa comes the closest.  Of course if you care for this person you'll tip toe around it.  But the effort just undermines any sense of being in any kind of relationship with a peer.  Unfortunate.
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#44
RE: Christian best friend asks me to reconsider
(June 12, 2017 at 8:59 am)Drich Wrote:
(June 9, 2017 at 5:04 pm)JamieB Wrote: I had a long breakfast with my christian best friend from high school the other day. I thought we agreed to disagree, but I got this long text of concern today. Its the same plea I've heard all my life, but she made it personal. She was diagnosed bi-polar and schizophrenic, so her experiences of hell felt very real to her. Maybe I should let her believe I got my ticket to heaven for her sake, but that is really hard for me. Here's her text:

Hi Jamie. God's love is deeper than any song lyric. The death of Jesus on the Cross was horrible and brutal. Beyond horrific. The difference between His crucifixion and a horror movie, is that in the end, the horror movie does not have a happy ending. It leaves you even more terrified. BUT with Jesus' death, it only lasted 3days. Then He rose from the dead. Over three hundred people witnessed His resurrection. He was alive. He is the God of joy and peace and love and forgiveness. And He is also righteous and Holy. He is so much bigger than this world and this earthly life. Eternity lasts forever. There is no ending. With the Lord, is your Grandma and Bumpa. Your Mom and Dad, your sissies too. Pastor Bear. All those times of joyous laughter, and purity and love. Being goofy. Dancing around singing in our shower caps. So innocent and sweet. All the lullabies you can sing. Those will all be in Heaven. The love and protection we feel with our families. It's the love of the Lord. Forgiving each other and being forgiven. That's Jesus and His love. Why would anyone ever want to not have any of that. Apart from the Lord we cannot and  would not have any of that. No good times. Just being alone and feeling alone, and guilty and scared forever and ever. All those horror movies become the reality. And one cannot turn it off. There is no ending and relief that's over or will come to an end. I speak as someone with just a hint of what that would be like, and my nightmares and terrors only lasted around 10 or 11 years. Hell is never waking up or having them go away.
Please reexamine what you are believing in. I love you so much. Start praying again and pray hard. Tell God everything you are feeling. Tell Him how hard it is for you to believe. Know that He is still with you. In fact, you are His because you asked Him into your heart when you were 13 or 14. His voice resonated with you because you knew He was telling you the truth. The Holy Spirit written about in the New Testament is the same Spirit of God that is talked about in the Old Testament. We can talk more about Him later. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One God distinctly portrayed in three persons. Jamie, similarly you are made up of three persons too. You were created in HD image. Your physical body, your emotions/feelings/mental thoughts, and your spirit. I love you, Jay jay, and Jesus does too. That deep intimacy that you long for can only truly come from Him. No other man can fulfill that. At least, not for long. Anything or anyone else we try for is only counterfeit, and won't last long. It will fade and die like our bodies and the flowers. 
I know this is really long, but there was so much left unspoken. If I didn't care about you, I wouldn't have said anything. BUT I DO.✝ ❤ ? ? ? Good night. His joy comes in the morning.

Sent from my iPhone
That was so sweet my teeth hurt.

I don't think I could ever write something like that to anyone.

That said there are people who do and yet it still has no effect. (to those who demand I play nice.)
My friend Shannon has a beautiful heart. We did everything together in High school, and I will always love her. Yes, her words are very sweet, but I see them as fear and worry and I'd rather her not stress about my salvation. The idea of god seems to help her deal with what she's been dealt so she's the person I struggle most with sharing  my atheist views. She has seen hell in her mind due to her disease, and to fight that is really difficult and pointless. I'd like her to be happy.
I was a born-again christian for many years then I got woke.. and now life is better in so many ways. It's taking me time to see my value and find my voice, but the reward is liberating knowing my path is not dictated or controlled by fear of death and the unknown.  Casting off the shackles of religion is pretty fucking awesome. The beautiful people I've met on this forum have more heart and compassion than any group of people I've been apart of. So back off Jesus and followers, because this bitch is done with Chu.  Shy 
  
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#45
RE: Christian best friend asks me to reconsider
There is just so much wrong with this just some points to go over


Quote:The death of Jesus on the Cross was horrible and brutal. Beyond horrific. The difference between His crucifixion and a horror movies that in the end, the horror movie does not have a happy ending. it leaves you even more terrified

Horrible not really.  The immortal  man god was tortured a bit and wound up in hell three days . So essentially a long weekend. And not a happy ending .He got away from the assholes who killed him id say that's a happy ending . then again he has to spend the rest of eternity with the being how orcastrated it so yeah that might suck. 

Quote:BUT with Jesus' death, it only lasted 3days. Then He rose from the dead. Over three hundred people witnessed His resurrection. He was alive.

Nope if Jesus existed he's likely  dust by now


Quote:He is the God of joy and peace and love and forgiveness. And He is also righteous and Holy. He is so much bigger than this world and this earthly life


Nope by any description that is not him tooting his own horn or the babbling of his sycophants . He checks none of the boxes above.

Quote:There is no ending. With the Lord, is your Grandma and Bumpa. Your Mom and Dad, your sissies too. Pastor Bear. All those times of joyous laughter, and purity and love. Being goofy. Dancing around singing in our shower caps. So innocent and sweet. All the lullabies you can sing. Those will all be in Heaven. The love and protection we feel with our families

I can't speak of the persons in question. But all I can say is I find this statement utterly beyond belief . The only thing I can conceive actual people in heaven doing is trying to kill themselves to escape.  If not this then the only conclusion I can come too. Is either there illusions or their minds have been altered and thus there already dead.

Quote:It's the love of the Lord. Forgiving each other and being forgiven. That's Jesus and His love

Having others forgive you is cheap . Having to learn to forgive yourself is meaningful and far harder.



Quote:Why would anyone ever want to not have any of that


See above . And for the family bits .I have had that . With them when they were alive to ask more is cruel.


Quote:Apart from the Lord we cannot and  would not have any of that. No good times

In life this is factually false . If you mean hell then I'm no worse off then in heaven



Quote:those horror movies become the reality. And one cannot turn it off

Then that's the way it is . If that's the price for being myself then I accept it. And I have already spoken of why the fear and pain are irrelevant.



Quote:There is no ending and relief that's over or will come to an end


Yup and you ask us to  willingly walk into the arms of a being that would conceive such a thing


Quote:I speak as someone with just a hint of what that would be like, and my nightmares and terrors only lasted around 10 or 11 years. Hell is never waking up or having them go away.

She speaks of nightmares If go permits something worst then mine . Then he is a piece of shit indeed.
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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#46
RE: Christian best friend asks me to reconsider
(June 14, 2017 at 9:55 am)Tizheruk Wrote: There is just so much wrong with this just some points to go over


Quote:The death of Jesus on the Cross was horrible and brutal. Beyond horrific. The difference between His crucifixion and a horror movies that in the end, the horror movie does not have a happy ending. it leaves you even more terrified

Horrible not really.  The immortal  man god was tortured a bit and wound up in hell three days . So essentially a long weekend. And not a happy ending .He got away from the assholes who killed him id say that's a happy ending . then again he has to spend the rest of eternity with the being how orcastrated it so yeah that might suck. 

Quote:BUT with Jesus' death, it only lasted 3days. Then He rose from the dead. Over three hundred people witnessed His resurrection. He was alive.

Nope if Jesus existed he's likely  dust by now


Quote:He is the God of joy and peace and love and forgiveness. And He is also righteous and Holy. He is so much bigger than this world and this earthly life


Nope by any description that is not him tooting his own horn or the babbling of his sycophants . He checks none of the boxes above.

Quote:There is no ending. With the Lord, is your Grandma and Bumpa. Your Mom and Dad, your sissies too. Pastor Bear. All those times of joyous laughter, and purity and love. Being goofy. Dancing around singing in our shower caps. So innocent and sweet. All the lullabies you can sing. Those will all be in Heaven. The love and protection we feel with our families

I can't speak of the persons in question. But all I can say is I find this statement utterly beyond belief . The only thing I can conceive actual people in heaven doing is trying to kill themselves to escape.  If not this then the only conclusion I can come too. Is either there illusions or their minds have been altered and thus there already dead.

Quote:It's the love of the Lord. Forgiving each other and being forgiven. That's Jesus and His love

Having others forgive you is cheap . Having to learn to forgive yourself is meaningful and far harder.



Quote:Why would anyone ever want to not have any of that


See above . And for the family bits .I have had that . With them when they were alive to ask more is cruel.


Quote:Apart from the Lord we cannot and  would not have any of that. No good times

In life this is factually false . If you mean hell then I'm no worse off then in heaven



Quote:those horror movies become the reality. And one cannot turn it off

Then that's the way it is . If that's the price for being myself then I accept it. And I have already spoken of why the fear and pain are irrelevant.



Quote:There is no ending and relief that's over or will come to an end


Yup and you ask us to  willingly walk into the arms of a being that would conceive such a thing


Quote:I speak as someone with just a hint of what that would be like, and my nightmares and terrors only lasted around 10 or 11 years. Hell is never waking up or having them go away.

She speaks of nightmares If go permits something worst then mine . Then he is a piece of shit indeed.
Your words are cracking me up. Thanx for bringing more light to the crazy that is god believers. So fucking funny Big Grin
I was a born-again christian for many years then I got woke.. and now life is better in so many ways. It's taking me time to see my value and find my voice, but the reward is liberating knowing my path is not dictated or controlled by fear of death and the unknown.  Casting off the shackles of religion is pretty fucking awesome. The beautiful people I've met on this forum have more heart and compassion than any group of people I've been apart of. So back off Jesus and followers, because this bitch is done with Chu.  Shy 
  
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