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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 21, 2017 at 10:06 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2017 at 10:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 21, 2017 at 3:35 pm)alpha male Wrote: (June 21, 2017 at 2:49 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Unless god's a special case.
On what basis? I'm willing to entertain the argument, but so far, no one has given a rationale for that position.
...............no, no one has......and yet, you don't think gods an automaton, he's that special case. Omniscience, for whatever unstated reason, does not preclude his own free will. To say that you're willing to entertain the argument is an understatement...you belief in it as a matter of christian faith.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 21, 2017 at 11:15 pm
Quote:Adam and Eve had just had sex for the first time. Adam was relaxing by a tree, when God's voice boomed down from above. 'You've just experienced sex for the first time. How was it?' Adam replies, 'Oh Lord, it was great. I've never felt so good in my life.'
God says, 'Where is Eve, thine wife?'
Adam replies, 'She is washing herself, down in the river.'
Suddenly, the skies turned dark and lightning flashed and thunder sounded. God became furious and said 'Nooo!!! Now I'll never get the smell out of the fish!!'
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 22, 2017 at 6:21 am
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2017 at 6:32 am by John V.)
(June 21, 2017 at 10:06 pm)Khemikal Wrote: ...............no, no one has
Why do you think that prefacing acknowledgement of a lack of support with ................ somehow helps you?
Quote:......and yet, you don't think gods an automaton, he's that special case.
Wrong again.
(June 21, 2017 at 10:03 pm)Succubus Wrote: I can't address it because I don't have the remotest idea what it means, and I'm pretty sure you don't either.
I know what it means. Mister Agenda seems to as well. If omniscience precludes free will, and God is omniscient, it follows that God doesn't have free will. You can propose a mechanic by which God knows everything (which of course includes his own actions) and yet has free will if you like, but so far no one has.
Quote:The lord repented for a scenario of his own devising and knew the consequences of an ∞ number of years ago? Infinity is a long time to repent, outwitted by the talking snake he himself programmed. He knew exactly what the snake would say, so why didn't this daft bastard of an omni-everything god scrap the whole thing and start again? It's all sooo confusing.
If you assume that somehow God is omniscient yet has free will, then...why should he scrap the whole thing? He's happy with the final outcome - he ends up with those who love him forever. Those who love him are likewise thrilled with the outcome - I like life here on earth as it is, even with the suffering. Eternal life with God and no suffering is great! Why should he scrap that?
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 22, 2017 at 8:00 am
(June 22, 2017 at 6:21 am)alpha male Wrote: (June 21, 2017 at 10:06 pm)Khemikal Wrote: ...............no, no one has
Why do you think that prefacing acknowledgement of a lack of support with ................ somehow helps you?
Quote:......and yet, you don't think gods an automaton, he's that special case.
Wrong again. Alpha, you just told us, in this thread..that you don't think that god is an automaton. Just stop, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 22, 2017 at 8:08 am
(June 22, 2017 at 8:00 am)Khemikal Wrote: (June 22, 2017 at 6:21 am)alpha male Wrote: Why do you think that prefacing acknowledgement of a lack of support with ................ somehow helps you?
Wrong again. Alpha, you just told us, in this thread..that you don't think that god is an automaton. Just stop, lol.
That's not the part that's wrong.
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 22, 2017 at 8:11 am
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2017 at 8:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Oh, my bad. Did I fail to put a comma somewhere? Lemme try again.
Just, stop.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 22, 2017 at 8:17 am
(June 22, 2017 at 8:11 am)Khemikal Wrote: Oh, my bad. Did I fail to put a comma somewhere? Lemme try again.
Just, stop.
Yes, it is your bad. I'm being purposely vague because I'm tired of you jumping into conversations without reading them, and making wrong assumptions about my positions.
I took Succubus's position and showed an internal fault with it. I never said that I subscribed to that position myself. You're making arguments as if I had said I agree with his position, and so your arguments end up being wrong.
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 22, 2017 at 8:23 am
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2017 at 8:33 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 22, 2017 at 8:17 am)alpha male Wrote: Yes, it is your bad. I'm being purposely vague because I'm tired of you jumping into conversations without reading them, and making wrong assumptions about my positions.
I took Succubus's position and showed an internal fault with it. I never said that I subscribed to that position myself. You're making arguments as if I had said I agree with his position, and so your arguments end up being wrong.
-except that you only did any of that in your own mind..as I took the time to explain.
You agree that god is not an automaton. If omiscience precludes our free will, it still doesn't, in your mind, preclude gods. God is the typical special case. I know that instinctively you want to rail against that, because the notion of special pleading has been drilled into you here, on these boards..but pleading for a special case is perfectly reasonable when the case -is- special.
It's this, the special case concept of god maintained by you and every other believer, that people are addressing...as you already knew, as everyone already knew, and has been explained to you in thread just in case you somehow didn't know that. A willful being intentionally judging and punsihing automatons for being exactly how he himself designed them is absurd, and more than that..it's wrong.
If I put beef jerky on the floor, and my dog eats it - what I probably -shouldn't- do is beat my dog for it, for being a "bad dog". I'm obviously a shitty dog owner, just like god is obviously a shitty people owner.
The same holds true even if god -is- an automaton, even if god doesn;t choose to beat the shit out of his human chattel..it;s just in his nature. He may not be a moral agent, but the act itself is still as wrong as it ever was, and for all the same reasons.
You're being "purposely vague" because you're two parts troll and one part christer..but there's nothing vague or ambiguous in your belief in the special case god; the exception to every rule you may wish to logically impose upon it's creation. It's the uncreated creator. The omniscient but freely willed. The omnipotent but incapable, etc, etc etc.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 22, 2017 at 8:27 am
(June 22, 2017 at 8:23 am)Khemikal Wrote: -except that you only did any of that in your own mind..as I took the time to explain tried to spin it.
FTFY
Quote:You agree that god is not an automaton.
Yep.
Quote:If omiscience precludes our free will,
A position I didn't take.
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RE: 10 Questions Biblical Literalists Cannot Honestly Answer
June 22, 2017 at 8:36 am
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2017 at 8:44 am by The Grand Nudger.)
That was the position you were addressing. If you didn't assume it, then you couldn't have been showing any problem within someone else's argument. Their argument being that god's omniscience with regards to our actions precludes -our- free will. You settled, instead, for some nonsense appeal to hypocrisy - which isn't even an argument..that invoked some other proposition..that god's omniscience precludes his own free will..which you do not believe, and which was not the crux of that others argument....and which doesn;t, btw, "follow" from others arguments. It's a strange oddity of christer apologism that you can toss them a logical lifeline and they'll push it away for having come from a godless heathen.
Appeals to hypocrisy forming the justification for straw. Fail.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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