Questions about Evolutionism vs. Creationsim

[MusicalElf11]

1) How long were the days of Genesis 1 and why do you think so?
2) How old is the earth and why do you think so?
3) Do humans and apes share common ancestors and why do you think so?
4) Was Adam of Genesis 2 a real historical person and why do you think so?

1.  Genesis is a fictional book concocted from the tales of primitive goat herders.  You would have to ask the people who made it up what they meant by a "day."

2.  4.5 billion years as determined by modern radiometric dating systems.... not some stupid old book.

3.  Yes, of course they do.  In fact, humans are still apes it is just that modern humans and apes shared a remote common ancestor between 6 and 7 million years ago.

4.  Of course not.  It's a fucking fairy tale.

Where do you go to school?  "Liberty University?"

Thanks for replying, I very much appreciate it. I'm not here to convert anyone, just to have an open discussion about these questions like you would have with a child who knew nothing about either religion or evolution. (Partly why I'm going to be asking "why" a lot... I want to know more than "just because it is".)

1) Why do you believe primitive goat herders came up with the tales? (As opposed to modern liars, or advanced ancient races, etc.)

2) Could you explain radiometric dating a bit more? What was the scientist's basis for dating?

3) What was the ancestor?

4) Why do you believe it is a fairy tale?

[Alex K]

That's what I'm starting to think about these posts, too. I'm not on an atheist site to be some random theist's lab rat. Don't just poll us about our thoughts on your classwork and then disappear. Come and have a real conversation with us instead.

Actually, I would like to have a real conversation with you.

Could you explain with some more detail why the earth is billions of years old, and why radiometric dating proves that age? And why remainders of retroviruses prove our relationship to apes? Feel free to throw all the scientific terms at me that you wish, and I'll do my best to understand them.

Sure, but please note that I am a physicist by training, not a geologist or a biologist.

Now, many of the viruses you know such as the common cold, carry their genome in the form of RNA molecules. They therefore can't accidentally end up in your own genes, which are given as DNA. Some RNA viruses such as the Aids virus HIV, however, possess a mechanism to translate their RNA back into the DNA format - they are therefore called retroviruses. When you get infected by one, there is a small chance that its back-converted DNA will end up in your sperm cells or egg cells and be passed on to your children as part of their genome in every single one of their cells, including THEIR sperm cells or egg cells. Over the generations, these so-called Endogenous Retroviruses or ERVs degrade because they get cut up and mutate, but usually scientists can still recognize their DNA remains as having belonged to a retrovirus DNA many generations ago. This apparently happened to the common ancestors of chimps and humans, because there are many fragmentary ERVs in the corresponding places in human and chimp DNA, and this is smoking gun evidence for a common ancestor (but only one line of evidence among many), documenting infection events in those common ancestors. Chimps are your distant cousins, get over it. I bet that, like me, you have some relatives in your extended family that are way worse than being a chimp's removed cousin.

If you ask specifically about which remainders - a large part of our so-called junk DNA is chopped-up retroviruses, so, a lot of different ones.

[Jesster]

Here are some resources about evolution

Here are some resources about the age of the earth

Here's some about radiometric dating

[MusicalElf11]

Actually, I would like to have a real conversation with you.

Could you explain with some more detail why the earth is billions of years old, and why radiometric dating proves that age? And why remainders of retroviruses prove our relationship to apes? Feel free to throw all the scientific terms at me that you wish, and I'll do my best to understand them.

Could you explain to me why you didn't go to a scientific source to find the answers to these questions? This is an atheist website. The general idea here is that we don't believe in gods. You don't need to be a scientist to come to that stance (I'm more of an artist by the way). If you are honestly interested in scientific findings, I can't fathom why you would come here first.

I came here because the requirement for the class was to ask people those four questions I posted in the beginning of the thread. I couldn't just find the answers in a scientific document... But that doesn't mean I'm here to ask the questions, get my answer, and then leave. I'm happy to have a discussion about them.

---

Here are some resources about evolution

Here are some resources about the age of the earth

Here's some about radiometric dating

Thanks!

[Alex K]

Hey @MusicalElf11, what do you yourself believe about those four questions? Also, since you are a real human being apparently, how's it going?

[Anomalocaris]

I find it utterly impossible to believe you could not find answers to these in scientific documents, treatises or texts, but you can read and have access to the internet.

[Jesster]

I came here because the requirement for the class was to ask people those four questions I posted in the beginning of the thread. I couldn't just find the answers in a scientific document... But that doesn't mean I'm here to ask the questions, get my answer, and then leave. I'm happy to have a discussion about them.

Well here's my answer to the questions as a whole then:

I don't believe in the claims of that religion (or others) purely because none of it has ever been shown to be factual. Scientific alternatives, true or not, have nothing to do with it. I care about what is true. Someone turning their nose up at science doesn't make me respect their own views any more.

[paulpablo]

1) 24 hours because thats how long days have always been during human existence and a human wrote the story.

2) I honestly just go along with whatever mainstream science says about the age of the earth. I haven't looked into it much though.

3) Yes I believe apes share common ancestors.
Because science says so.
I myself have looked into this topic but it's been a while.
All I can say is that the more I looked Into it the more it made sense to me.

4) I don't think Adam was a real person. The story makes less and less sense the more I think about it.
With talking snakes. One man and one woman starting all humanity.

[MusicalElf11]

Actually, I would like to have a real conversation with you.

Could you explain with some more detail why the earth is billions of years old, and why radiometric dating proves that age? And why remainders of retroviruses prove our relationship to apes? Feel free to throw all the scientific terms at me that you wish, and I'll do my best to understand them.

Sure, but please note that I am a physicist by training, not a geologist or a biologist.

Now, many of the viruses you know such as the common cold, carry their genome in the form of RNA molecules. They therefore can't accidentally end up in your own genes, which are given as DNA. Some RNA viruses such as the Aids virus HIV, however, possess a mechanism to translate their RNA back into the DNA format - they are therefore called retroviruses. When you get infected by one, there is a small chance that its back-converted DNA will end up in your sperm cells or egg cells and be  passed on to your children as part of their genome in every single one of their cells, including THEIR sperm cells or egg cells. Over the generations, these so-called Endogenous Retroviruses or ERVs degrade because they get cut up and mutate, but usually scientists can still recognize their DNA remains as having belonged to  a retrovirus DNA many generations ago. This apparently happened to the common ancestors of chimps and humans, because there are many fragmentary ERVs in the corresponding places  in human and chimp DNA, and this is smoking gun evidence for a common ancestor (but only one line of evidence among many), documenting infection events in those common ancestors. Chimps are your distant cousins, get over it. I bet that, like me, you have some relatives in your extended family that are way worse than being a chimp's removed cousin.

If you ask specifically about which remainders - a large part of our so-called junk DNA is chopped-up retroviruses, so, a lot of different ones.

Thanks for the reply.

That's really interesting. (I'm a film major, so I could see using this in a sci-fi film at some point... I like fiction that builds off of real life).
But back to the science. Once a gene is mutated, doesn't it lose genetic information though? If we evolved from apes through RNA viruses such as HIV, wouldn't we have, well, died? AIDS weakens your immune system rather than strengthens it or changes you into something else.

[pocaracas]

1. 24 hours. That's how long a day is, give or take a few minutes.

2. Billions of years, according to radiometric dating and other evidences.

3. Of course we do. The evidence is fairly indisputable.

4. No, Adam was not a historical figure. He's a metaphor in a mythical tale.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

1. 24 hours or just nonexistent, if you believe it's a fake story?

2. Could you describe what radiometric dating was used as proof? I've been able to study it somewhat, and when measuring the half-lives of different substances, we find different results. Which specific elements were you referring to? And what other evidences?

3. The evidence is indisputable. Which evidence? Transitional fossils or something else?

4. How do you know he is a myth?

Oh look!
Another Statler Waldorf! (reference: https://atheistforums.org/thread-5237.html)

Drop that "answers in genesis" site and all the pseudo science it contains. It'll melt your brain. True story, I've seen it happen... well... I know a guy who says he saw it happen.

Can't wait to see you bring up the "moon recession proves the Earth can't be as old as claimed"...