44 States

[Thumpalumpacus]

@Thump

Not really.  OFC republicans object to having the feds make a list of citizens names.  As you mentioned earlier, that's their entire brand on federal level gun control.  Obviously, the "fraud commission" was one toke over the line on this one.  What -may- be surprising, to some anyway..is that among those republicans standing up to the request from Kris Kobach...is Kris Kobach.  Sure, in a wheedling semi-compliance sort of way, but still..credit where credit is due.  That Kobach guy knows what an asshole that Kobach guy is better than most of us.

In December of 1941, Gerd von Rundstedt, in charge of Germany's Army Group South in the invasion of the USSR, was planning to retreat about fifty miles to consolidate his lines in preparation for winter offensives from the enemy. When Hitler learned of this, he telegraphed Rundstedt to stay right where he was, "not one foot back".

The Field Marshal telegraphed back that the order was foolish and if he, Hitler, wanted it followed, he would need to find someone else to do it.

It's a shame that Kobach didn't tell the Shitgibbon to go hammer sand up his ass. I guess even six months on the teat has him already hooked?

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't, personally, think that the right is suckling from the Trump Teat.  I think that they're managing a useful distraction and eventual patsy.

[Brian37]

Meh, they aren't liberal in any meaningful way that I'm aware of.  I wouldn't necessarily describe them as conservative either.  I have another, less kind adjective in mind.

Now watch one of them come along and accuse me of being a leftist extremist.  You know who I speak of.

I know, it's one of those dirty little secrets of american politics that the neocon movement sprang out of american liberalism and, like having a undesireable ancestor, they go to great lengths to hide that fact.  Sure, the two branches of the tree have diverged since then - but the key differences between actual conservatives and neocons lie precisely along their liberal tax and spend heritage.  The only thing they share with traditional conservatives being social conservatism (which is falling out of favor with non-neocon rightwingers anyway - mostly because the optics on that blow, hard).  While they share the fundamental ideological fiscal policies of modern liberals, they apply big government and big taxes to a different group of people and to decidedly different ends.  Back in the day, traditional conservatives tried to pull the cat out of the bag on this one..but obviously they failed, the culmination of this bait and switch being the election of Bush the Dumber.  

@Thump

Not really.  OFC republicans object to having the feds make a list of citizens names.  As you mentioned earlier, that's their entire brand on federal level gun control.  Obviously, the "fraud commission" was one toke over the line on this one.  What -may- be surprising, to some anyway..is that among those republicans standing up to the request from Kris Kobach...is Kris Kobach.  Sure, in a wheedling semi-compliance sort of way, but still..credit where credit is due.  That Kobach guy knows what an asshole that Kobach guy is better than most of us.

What the fuck does clear attempts at voter intimidation have to do with guns?

[The Grand Nudger]

Nothing, unless one is the kind of person who objected to federal level gun control on the grounds that the fed shouldn't have the ability to make lists of citizens names.  Governments and lists, you know...kind of a spotty history.  The argument from folks such-as ran along the lines of those lists being a clear attempt to intimidate citizens who were exercising their constitutional rights. If the fed could somehow screw with the second, what would stop them from screwing with the fifteenth? Where does it end.

You're welcome.

[Brian37]

Nothing, unless one is the kind of person who objected to federal level gun control on the grounds that the fed shouldn't have the ability to make lists of citizens names.  Governments and lists, you know...kind of a spotty history.  The argument from folks such-as ran along the lines of those lists being a clear attempt to intimidate citizens who were exercising their constitutional rights.  If the fed could somehow screw with the second, what would stop them from screwing with the fifteenth?  Where does it end.

You're welcome.

Government keeps lists on citizens for lots of things,IRS, social security, and drivers licences most notably. If I owned a firearm, just like a car has a vin number and licence plate, and it got stolen, or worse, stolen and used in a crime, why the fuck would I not want it traced and the criminal charged for stealing my property?

I think the bullshit is that the far right has been sold too much cold war bullshit. I am glad to see however, even they are telling a GOP president to fuck off. It gives me some hope that we are not completely lost. 

Your attempt to equate gun SAFETY to what Trump is doing is bullshit. The irony is that the far right thinks liberals should not be trusted owning firearms, there was a politician long ago that expanded gun rights to his loyalists and took them away from dissenters. That asshole committed suicide in a bunker.

[The Grand Nudger]

Government keeps lists on citizens for lots of things,IRS, social security, and drivers licences most notably. If I owned a firearm, just like a car has a vin number and licence plate, and it got stolen, or worse, stolen and used in a crime, why the fuck would I not want it traced and the criminal charged for stealing my property?

Yeah, I know...-they even keep lists of gun owners and their guns manufacturing ID - and sometimes rifling patterns-...just not at the federal level.

I think the bullshit is that the far right has been sold too much cold war bullshit. I am glad to see however, even they are telling a GOP president to fuck off. It gives me some hope that we are not completely lost. 

At some point they have to.  The whole point of the Trump presidency, from the point of the establishment right, is to reduce brand damage.  They get to be seen virtue signaling (republican virtues, mind you, like obedience to state and superiors) - but they also get to pull the rug out from under him at some point and lay all of their failures on his outgoing august self.

Your attempt to equate gun SAFETY to what Trump is doing is bullshit. The irony is that the far right thinks liberals should not be trusted owning firearms, there was a politician long ago that expanded gun rights to his loyalists and took them away from dissenters. That asshole committed suicide in a bunker.

You turn into an idiot whenever guns come up...you know that right...lol.  -I- didn't equate them......the republicans did by framing that issue in the way that they did.  If they;re against lists purportedly designed to intimidate citizens trying to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights..then they should be against those lists regardless of whether or not it's the 2nd or the 15th amendment in question.    

Understand?

[Brian37]

Government keeps lists on citizens for lots of things,IRS, social security, and drivers licences most notably. If I owned a firearm, just like a car has a vin number and licence plate, and it got stolen, or worse, stolen and used in a crime, why the fuck would I not want it traced and the criminal charged for stealing my property?

Yeah, I know...-they even keep lists of gun owners and their guns manufacturing ID - and sometimes rifling patterns-...just not at the federal level.

I think the bullshit is that the far right has been sold too much cold war bullshit. I am glad to see however, even they are telling a GOP president to fuck off. It gives me some hope that we are not completely lost. 

At some point they have to.  The whole point of the Trump presidency, from the point of the establishment right, is to reduce brand damage.  They get to be seen virtue signaling (republican virtues, mind you, like obedience to state and superiors) - but they also get to pull the rug out from under him at some point and lay all of their failures on his outgoing august self.

Your attempt to equate gun SAFETY to what Trump is doing is bullshit. The irony is that the far right thinks liberals should not be trusted owning firearms, there was a politician long ago that expanded gun rights to his loyalists and took them away from dissenters. That asshole committed suicide in a bunker.

You turn into an idiot whenever guns come up...you know that right...lol.  -I- didn't equate them......the republicans did by framing that issue in the way that they did.  If they;re against lists purportedly designed to intimidate citizens trying to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights..then they should be against those lists regardless of whether or not it's the 2nd or the 15th amendment in question.    

Understand?

Guns are already kept track of, unfortunately NOT on updated systems, but just like with the VA, the GOP guts funding to everything, then blames the other side for a needless problem they created.

What keeps EITHER PARTY from becoming fascist are not government record keeping, but enforcement of checks and balances, oversight of power. The bullshit coming from the right is "big bad government", which is not the real argument they are making but "we want to be the only power".

I don't want to hear your bullshit "government tyranny" if you support a party that wants to crawl up vaginas they don't own.

[Jackalope]

I don't, personally, think that the right is suckling from the Trump Teat.  I think that they're managing a useful distraction and eventual patsy.

Right. While the attention is on the rat in the kitchen, the cockroaches in the pantry are living it up.

[Brian37]

I don't, personally, think that the right is suckling from the Trump Teat.  I think that they're managing a useful distraction and eventual patsy.

Right.  While the attention is on the rat in the kitchen, the cockroaches in the pantry are living it up.

GOP have been pulling this bait and switch crap for years, but I don't think it is working as much anymore. Trump was Tweeting his narcissistic ass off prior to the 4th of July break when the GOP wanted to strong arm a horrible health care bill in while nobody was watching, and that didn't work.

I am telling everyone sane who lives in America who accesses social media to spend as much time every single day when you can, to not only challenge 45, but point out at the same time what the GOP is doing.

I have no problem with multi tasking.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't, personally, think that the right is suckling from the Trump Teat.  I think that they're managing a useful distraction and eventual patsy.

As a whole, you're almost certainly right.

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Your attempt to equate gun SAFETY to what Trump is doing is bullshit.

My point -- and it was I who made it originally -- was not an attempt to equate gun-anything to Trump's actions, but to highlight the fact that a group that has expressed a fear of being on a government list is apparently okay with a government list so long as it catalogs their political opponents.