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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 27, 2019 at 12:39 pm
(September 27, 2019 at 12:31 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: (September 27, 2019 at 11:32 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Again, a lot of Trump's troubles seem to stem directly from the fact that he doesn't know what a lot of words mean.
A 'spy' isn't anything remotely like a 'whistleblower'.
'Oversight' isn't 'treason'.
'Investigation of hiding politically sensitive information in a code-only access computer file intended and used for top-level national security issues as a way to cover up presidential misconduct' doesn't mean the same thing as 'witchhunt'.
Boru
Is Trump a sleazy politician? Does the pope wear holy underwear?
Like it or not Executive Order 12356 - in place since 1982 gives the President the authority to classify or declassify information AT HIS DISCRETION....
Clinton used it. Obama used it.... If it was a really bad idea - they should have countermanded the EO.....
They didn't.
No big surprise it gets abused.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the president's ability to de/classify information.
I confess to being uninformed about the sanctity of the Pope's undergarments.
Boru
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 27, 2019 at 2:48 pm
(This post was last modified: September 27, 2019 at 2:51 pm by onlinebiker.)
(September 27, 2019 at 12:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 27, 2019 at 12:31 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Is Trump a sleazy politician? Does the pope wear holy underwear?
Like it or not Executive Order 12356 - in place since 1982 gives the President the authority to classify or declassify information AT HIS DISCRETION....
Clinton used it. Obama used it.... If it was a really bad idea - they should have countermanded the EO.....
They didn't.
No big surprise it gets abused.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the president's ability to de/classify information.
I confess to being uninformed about the sanctity of the Pope's undergarments.
Boru
It has everything to do with it.
Read section 3.1b.
Declassification must be done by the originator of the implementation of information's classification - their successor, or supervising superior. As the President is the top supervisor he can classify or declassify anything - at whim.
Edit to add - I KNOW this shit. I held a TS clearance when this executive order went through - and had to sit through a weeks worth of classes on it.
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 27, 2019 at 2:54 pm
(September 27, 2019 at 2:48 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: (September 27, 2019 at 12:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: This has nothing whatsoever to do with the president's ability to de/classify information.
I confess to being uninformed about the sanctity of the Pope's undergarments.
Boru
It has everything to do with it.
Read section 3.1b.
Declassification must be done by the originator of the implementation of information's classification - their successor, or supervising superior. As the President is the top supervisor he can classify or declassify anything - at whim.
Edit to add - I KNOW this shit. I held a TS clearance when this executive order went.through - and had to sit through a weeks worth of classes ob it.
But that's got nothing to do with it. Trump can classify whatever he wants, but the transcript of the phone call was placed in a separate server that is only used for national security issues and to which only very, VERY few people have access. Since this wasn't a national security issue, classification doesn't enter into it.
It's not that it was classified, it's that it was hidden.
Boru
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 27, 2019 at 3:04 pm
(September 27, 2019 at 2:54 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 27, 2019 at 2:48 pm)onlinebikerb Wrote: It has everything to do with it.
Read section 3.1b.
Declassification must be done by the originator of the implementation of information's classification - their successor, or supervising superior. As the President is the top supervisor he can classify or declassify anything - at whim.
Edit to add - I KNOW this shit. I held a TS clearance when this executive order went.through - and had to sit through a weeks worth of classes ob it.
But that's got nothing to do with it. Trump can classify whatever he wants, but the transcript of the phone call was placed in a separate server that is only used for national security issues and to which only very, VERY few people have access. Since this wasn't a national security issue, classification doesn't enter into it.
It's not that it was classified, it's that it was hidden.
Boru
Probably so.
But he can classify whatever he likes. He has that authority. Until the EO is challanged ( by Congress) it will stay that way. And - ex post facto law says Trump can't be touched for it.
Ethical? Fuck no.
Illegal? Sadly - no.
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 27, 2019 at 3:32 pm
Not arguing that he has the ability to classify whatever he wants to classify. I'm just saying that this legal authority of his is immaterial to the current situation.
Boru
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 28, 2019 at 6:59 am
"This isn't some guy babbling in the men's room at Starbucks. That is the man who chairs the mighty House Intelligence Committee. We trust him with the most sensitive information, and yet he is clearly, demonstrably mentally ill."
-- Fox News host Tucker Carlson on Rep. Adam Schiff
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 28, 2019 at 7:12 am
(September 28, 2019 at 6:59 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: "This isn't some guy babbling in the men's room at Starbucks. That is the man who chairs the mighty House Intelligence Committee. We trust him with the most sensitive information, and yet he is clearly, demonstrably mentally ill."
-- Fox News host Tucker Carlson on Rep. Adam Schiff
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Boru
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 28, 2019 at 7:56 am
(September 27, 2019 at 3:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Not arguing that he has the ability to classify whatever he wants to classify. I'm just saying that this legal authority of his is immaterial to the current situation.
Boru
Why?
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 28, 2019 at 10:23 am
Because it doesn't matter that he classified it, declassified it, or shoved it up his bum and round the corner. The classification of the transcript isn't the issue. The issue is that it was put into a server for which things like this are not intended (and I doubt very much that Trump had a hand in doing that).
If the transcript was classified, all well and good. Classify it til the cows come home. But when the transcript is hidden in a server intended and used for extremely sensitive national security issues (which, at the time, this wasn't), it becomes a cover up.
Boru
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RE: The Official "Damned Trump" Thread
September 29, 2019 at 8:10 am
(September 28, 2019 at 10:23 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Because it doesn't matter that he classified it, declassified it, or shoved it up his bum and round the corner. The classification of the transcript isn't the issue. The issue is that it was put into a server for which things like this are not intended (and I doubt very much that Trump had a hand in doing that).
If the transcript was classified, all well and good. Classify it til the cows come home. But when the transcript is hidden in a server intended and used for extremely sensitive national security issues (which, at the time, this wasn't), it becomes a cover up.
Boru ROTFLMAO
Seriously -- think about what you just said.
When something is assigned a security classification - it must be stored in a method that is appropriate to that classification.
If they classified it Secret and kept it with all the unclassified voice transcripts.-- THEN there would be a problem.
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