Believing in Deities is a Form of Psychosis

[ComradeMeow]

It is to my belief, and observation, that having actual faith in any sort of deity from religious texts or folklore is a form of psychosis. 

What is psychosis? For those who don't know, psychosis is defined as a severe mental illness where in someone has lost touch with external reality. In other words, they believe in things that simply aren't real. And applying the facts to the topic of religion, with our current era's knowledge: it is indeed a FORM of psychosis. 

Now before you lose yourself, I'd like to state something. Religion, is barely often truly believed in. I tried to be a Christian once, and no matter how much I tried I could not believe in something that was utterly nonexistent and lose my touch with reality. 

People who do choose to be truly faithful and believe in such deities, are by, factual terms in a state of psychosis. With our current worldly knowledge, the facts stand true: gods and deities are not real. The facts are what we must go by in this debate, beliefs and faith, is by psychosis alone. While being mentally ill with psychosis has different effects, there have been many studies to show that religion in general is psychologically damaging.

Furthermore, many people in our history have believed in deities, so were all of them affected by psychosis? Firstly, I'd like to re-define the meaning behind a mental disorder. A mental disorder is simply a classification for a grouping of conditions to make understanding HUMAN ABNORMALITIES better. In it's primitive state, mental disorders are obsolete. There is no BIOLOGICAL condition, but rather an abnormality of the mind, at least I think. So technically they weren't 'ill', but just mentally abnormal in OUR PERSPECTIVE TIME. However then again psychosis of this form could've been perfectly normal at that time.

Then there are people who are like me, who tried their hardest to believe but couldn't due to the facts. With these people, I think they were merely pretending with religion in order to avoid persecution and whatnot. So with all of that stated, what are you thoughts?

I can agree that it is undoubtedly a form of psychosis to some extent but then you would have to prove if somebody is believing in something for good or bad reasons. For example I can be a deists and make only a vague description of a god and it is entirely removed from everyday life. I am only focusing on the teleological argument and exiting the realm of evidence. If this becomes psychosis than every argument involving presumptions is psychosis including most secular opinions on politics and morals thus making everybody on this forum a nutjob. 

Most religious people feel this way which is why they hate bringing it up in public since they don't wish to defend their beliefs. I never felt like this when I was a Muslim though because I felt confident in my beliefs and truly believed them, although not for long. 

Some questions to think on;

• Is it ethical to consider truly religious people mentally ill with psychosis?
  
• Should religion be eliminated from society to prevent psychological damage?
  
• Do you know anyone who went insane over God?
  
• Any more comments?
  

It is not ethical, and religion should not be eliminated. Nobody has any right to eliminate religion from society and even for people like me who strongly disapprove of theism, I cannot find a single reason why anybody would have such a desire. Religion is a proper and humane part of society but it does not imply that supernaturalism and theistic beliefs must make up that religion. Religion as a word is very bloated and is nonsensical when entailing what it means and does not mean. This is why you hear immature atheists screaming over religion when they have no idea what it did to society and how it molded the very lives they enjoy. Religion built empires and atheism built moronic armchair warriors. Atheism has no ideology and nothing to say about anything except that somebody lacks theistic beliefs, so why on earth would somebody settle on atheism without anything else in their life? Why not employ philosophical practices into your life and develop your own religion of ritual, morals and community. 

As for people who went insane over gods, yes I know of a teacher who has and she was my sister.

[mordant]

Atheism has no ideology and nothing to say about anything except that somebody lacks theistic beliefs, so why on earth would somebody settle on atheism without anything else in their life? Why not employ philosophical practices into your life and develop your own religion of ritual, morals and community.

Atheism itself is a narrow belief position on a single topic, however, it arises out of being a person who does not afford belief to the unsubstantiated, a form of empiricism or rationalism, which is how one arrives at a decent epistemological standard or system and chooses it over failed epistemologies. Therefore one does not arrive at a position of atheism for any sort of informed reason or as a matter of choice, without having some philosophical underpinnings.* It is these underpinnings that theists mistake for an "atheist worldview" when atheism isn't the view, it is the result of the view. What theists are better off railing against is not atheists, but empiricists and rationalists. Because even those empiricists who have not yet become atheists, are heading in that direction, inexorably and inherently. Theism is based on conjecture and irrationality, and so its true enemies are empiricism and rationalism. The problem that some fundamentalists have, of course, is that they can't admit they are making irrational conjectures or unsubstantiated assertions. It cuts them to the quick to admit that, so, they prefer to go off on a tangent and demonize atheists as the embodiment, not of rationalism or empiricism, but of rebellion, hatred, deceit, licentiousness, etc. It is simply an extension of how they misdiagnose the human condition as "evil".

* Of course there are a few atheists who are atheists for no better reason than some theists are theists -- because the idea appeals to them, or they want to fit in with others of like mind, or whatever. But very few people indeed openly take up a generally despised minority belief position like atheism, absent some real soul-searching.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As I understand it there was a battle regarding inclusion o f "belief in god or gods" in the psychosis section of the original Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.

[ComradeMeow]

Atheism has no ideology and nothing to say about anything except that somebody lacks theistic beliefs, so why on earth would somebody settle on atheism without anything else in their life? Why not employ philosophical practices into your life and develop your own religion of ritual, morals and community.

Atheism itself is a narrow belief position on a single topic, however, it arises out of being a person who does not afford belief to the unsubstantiated, a form of empiricism or rationalism, which is how one arrives at a decent epistemological standard or system and chooses it over failed epistemologies. Therefore one does not arrive at a position of atheism for any sort of informed reason or as a matter of choice, without having some philosophical underpinnings.* It is these underpinnings that theists mistake for an "atheist worldview" when atheism isn't the view, it is the result of the view. What theists are better off railing against is not atheists, but empiricists and rationalists. Because even those empiricists who have not yet become atheists, are heading in that direction, inexorably and inherently. Theism is based on conjecture and irrationality, and so its true enemies are empiricism and rationalism. The problem that some fundamentalists have, of course, is that they can't admit they are making irrational conjectures or unsubstantiated assertions. It cuts them to the quick to admit that, so, they prefer to go off on a tangent and demonize atheists as the embodiment, not of rationalism or empiricism, but of rebellion, hatred, licentiousness, etc.

* Of course there are a few atheists who are atheists for no better reason than some theists are theists -- because the idea appeals to them, or they want to fit in with others of like mind, or whatever. But very few people indeed openly take up a generally despised minority belief position like atheism, absent some real soul-searching.

This is exactly my point though, atheism is only the lack of belief in gods at its very basic meaning but that does not answer anything else. My morals obviously do not come from my atheism since morals and atheism have nothing to do with each other. My morals on the other hand comes from philosophy and a slight basis in biology and I am fully aware of my standards including my profound pacifism. 

Most people will only end at atheism and leave the world at a stand still and go with the societal flow. I know of most atheists whose opinions are formed merely by society and nothing else until you come to religion. I never stopped there and continued to reevaluate all of my opinions from religion to what food should I eat. 

I can easily tell you why I do the things I do and why I hold the opinions that I hold and ironically they are not opinions formulated by popular culture. I have rarely met an atheist who does not put his/her foot in their mouth when speaking on moral issues. I see the pervasive attitude of declaring religion a form of psychosis yet will acknowledge the same for transexualism despite the facts given. You cannot hold two equal issues and have two contradictory beliefs on them as if they are separate matters.

This is why I show compassion to the religious the same way I show compassion to transexuals. What I cannot do is show compassion to just one group and whole vitriolic disdain toward the other. 

I as an anti-theist will oppose theism because of its lack of truthfulness but I will not oppose it because I think I have the right conclusions about life. I will not even oppose all types of theism the same since conflating the semantics of pantheism to Abrahamic monotheism is unfair. I would not even oppose those who are like myself and enjoy the mythology of religion or what religions has to offer because I feel upset about that religions past. I would happily rejoin Islam if it dropped the theistic Muhammadiyyah bullshit and became a purely secular religion based on the practical opinions of al-Ma'ari and Zakariya al-Razi. That's not happening at the moment so I will have to hold my subscription.

The hate given towards religion as a concept though is unfounded and completely misinformed.

[Astonished]

I knew something didn't ring true about your posts but I couldn't tell for sure what. Now I know.

[ComradeMeow]

I knew something didn't ring true about your posts but I couldn't tell for sure what. Now I know.

What on earth are you talking about?

[Astonished]

I knew something didn't ring true about your posts but I couldn't tell for sure what. Now I know.

What on earth are you talking about?

I wouldn't worry about it.

[ComradeMeow]

What on earth are you talking about?

I wouldn't worry about it.

I am so confused now. I admit I didn't understand the relevancy of your first post but I guess I will drop it. I need to go back and finish my book anyways.

[Astonished]

I wouldn't worry about it.

I am so confused now. I admit I didn't understand the relevancy of your first post but I guess I will drop it. I need to go back and finish my book anyways.

LOL, relevancy. The hits just keep on comin'. But yeah, best not to think about it.

[Little Rik]

Easy MA.
Go in a place where people seriously practice intuitional science or the real yoga and see their same response about the real reality.
If I would tell you about such a places I would be accused of proselytism and I don't want to do that considering that I also practice the real yoga.
I just leave to you to sort out where these places are.  

Um, any group of people can have a consistent response on a position concerning reality (or imagination). Can they have a consistent and correct response to a question to which I know the answer, but which they should not be able to ascertain by physical means? Or any similarly miraculous knowledge that can be shown to be extraordinary yet verifiable?

That is not possible for a very good reason.
It would be like to give the keys of your car to your little kid.
It would be very very dangerous although is quite possible but it would be something totally irresponsible.
As soon as you start the spiritual path towards infinity then your guru or teacher take care of you as you would take care of your little kid-s.
By giving the keys of your car to your little one you automatically put him-her in a position of high danger.
The same goes for the relationship that goes on between you and your spiritual teacher.
Of course he could give you all the power to move mountains, do miracles, win at lotto, be a superman that can fly or any extraordinary thing you can imagine but for obvious reason he will not do that.
He want you to progress spiritually and merge into his ocean of cosmic consciousness and the only way to achieve that is to give to you only what you can deal with and not give you anything that may drag you back in your spiritual progress.

I guess you never thought about that MA, did you?

---

Wrong, wrong, wrong.      

Can your computer alter you?
How can it?
A physical science that deal with matter is miles and miles below the human consciousness therefore can not  alter it.
All physical science can do is to understand how the brain works but to understand the consciousness is a total different story.

Nope, I'm right right right. Test it yourself. Go a week without water or food. Ingest a large amount of alcohol. Give yourself repeated concussions. Run your car in a closed garage. All physical (science) things that can effect consciousness and do have an explanation in physical science. 

Maybe you don't have the ability to grasp the complete meaning of consciousness.

Wrong, wrong, wrong once again.

The original point was whether the physical reality can or can not alter your consciousness and the answer is not unless you produce an action with the intent in which case it does, so it is the intent that determine whether the action will alter the consciousness or not.

Our consciousness is connected to our body and brain so it is obvious that when our body or brain suffer in any way our consciousness feel the hit so to speak but to alter the consciousness is a totally different story.
The only thing that will alter our consciousness is not a reaction but an action.
When you have an unintentional accident that is a reaction to previous action-s.
Any thing you do in good faith that produce reactions are due to previous actions.
On the other hand anything that you do with the intent to do produce a reaction.
There is no such a thing as good or bad luck.
Everything is due to actions and reactions so a reaction can not possibly alter your consciousness but an action will.  

---

Nope, I'm right right right. Test it yourself. Go a week without water or food. Ingest a large amount of alcohol. Give yourself repeated concussions. Run your car in a closed garage. All physical (science) things that can effect consciousness and do have an explanation in physical science. 

Maybe you don't have the ability to grasp the complete meaning of consciousness.

Rik, bonus points if you perform all of mh.brewer's suggested tests in the same week. That would be fun.

Seriously, though, Rik is impervious to these arguments because he seems to think of consciousness as some sort of psychic substratum, independent of the actual contents of conscious experience. It's bullshit, of course, but it's his get-out-of-thinking-free card whenever he is challenged to address the myriad and well known ways that consciousness is affected by physical change.

Have to cling to that dogma at all costs!

Considering that you are at least fifty years behind with your understanding of how the whole system works there is no wonder that you carry on with all these dogmas in your mind   but give time and you too one day will understand how the whole system works and how the karma and actions determine the altering of the consciousness.
In the meantime you only have to learn and be more aware of your little understanding of how the whole system works.