The end of the enlightenment?

[downbeatplumb]

As Im sure an atheist would fear Russia 2.0

Russias still there you know.

Big country just west of Sarah Palins house.

[Tiberius]

Ok, it sounds like a great idea, and is on paper, but so was Communism!

...not on my paper.

[downbeatplumb]

Communism as expounded by Karl Marx was designed to be a fair way to run a country.

The trouble with Soviet communism was that it was not really communism but the replacement of one kind of dictatorship with another while paying lip service to communist ideals, (to pacify the population).

the ideal society would have publicly run vital services and a capatalist market place.

[Tiberius]

What do you define as "vital services"?

[ib.me.ub]

Here is a nice little list for you Adrian, as if you need it though. I suppose you have an ulterior motive for the want of the list. But here you go anyway;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_services#Sectors

Public services tend to be those considered so essential to modern life that for moral reasons their universal provision should be guaranteed, and they may be associated with fundamental human rights (such as the right to water).

* Broadcasting
* Education
* Electricity
* Fire service
* Gas
* Health care
* Military
* Police service
* Public transportation
* Social housing
* Telecommunications
* Town planning
* Waste management
* Water services
* Public information and archiving, such as libraries
* Social services
* Environmental protection

[Tiberius]

I have no ulterior motive, I was just surprised by downbeatplumb's ideal society including a capitalistic marketplace, so obviously I wanted to see what he classed as vital services. Your list is useful in general, but it isn't downbeatplumb's list, so is irrelevant.

[ib.me.ub]

Its a good list though. Just think of it as an extension of a collectively reasoned & understood motive.

You first responce;

...not on my paper.

was in relation to Communism in general, from your point of view, and directy in responce to my thoughts. downbeatplumb expanded the converstation by explaining his understanding of Communism (from the short decsription, sounds fair), and by doing so (absent or not) has added to my original thoughts.

Your responce to his thoughts, is an expansion from the original my origianl remark, and hence, by way of association is part of the overall conversation.

So, my last post, with the list, is also relevant by association.

[Tiberius]

It is irrelevant to *me*. I asked downbeatplumb for his list of vital services, since he was the one who suggested his ideal society. We each have differing opinions on what vital services are; for instance, I have no idea why "broadcasting" could be considered a vital service. This is why I wanted to know what downbeatplumb's list would be.

[ib.me.ub]

Well I suppose the same could be said for Communism. The answer I gave was in relation to *me*, but you decided to state that it was not for *you*. This would lead me to assume you were raising the point for a particular reason or motive. Be it constructive or not, the point was raised and responded too in turn! Isn't this the point of a forum, to debate, communiucate and learn!

In terms of 'broadcasting', for me, broadcasting is used to disperse valuable mixed content to the public. It is used to communicate vital information, such as weather alerts, warnings, news and current affairs to name but a few. By achieving this, the public tends to become more aware, understands more, and are able to learn (willingly or not), hence, are predominately more content.

I find it very hard to believe you don't understand the need for broadcasting. I could assume you are just waiting for the slip up so you can pounce :-).

[Tiberius]

Again, there is no motive (why am I repeating myself?). I asked downbeatplumb what he meant by "vital services". I await his answer. I will then discern whether I agree with his "ideal society" or not.

Of course I understand what broadcasting is, but I do not see it as a "vital" service that needs to be run by the state. In fact, I would reject any attempt made by the state in taking over broadcasting. Historically speaking, when that happens, it leads to state propaganda. I don't want the state controlling the information I have access to; I want that information out in the free market. Maybe you like the state controlling what current affairs or news you know about, but that kind of system only gives me the shivers.