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The undeniable miracle at Fatima
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 (August 5, 2017 at 9:46 pm)Cyberman Wrote: That's great. It means it can have no influence on our universe and can be safely ignored as irrelevant. But it's god, it can do what ever it wants. Puny human!
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
 RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 5, 2017 at 9:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2017 at 9:54 pm by Astonished.)
Anyone want to take a stab at this event being intended to teach people any kind of lesson? Because I'd wager whatever the intention, no one learned anything particularly significant about it, let alone gleaning any wisdom a deity would want to convey. Did anyone who wasn't already a dyed-in-the-wool believer see it and suddenly convert? If so, why did they convert to any particular branch of that particular faith, that's a tad suspicious if they happen to have latched onto whatever the dominant faith in that area happened to be. If that was even claimed by anyone trying to feebly reach out to skeptics.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
--- There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views. 
I have proof of an undeniable miracle. It's in my pants.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
Amazing how you all devalue eyewitness testimony as though it has no importance. That's not how society works. Look at our judicial system - if you were accused of robbing a bank in broad daylight and even ONE witness were to come forward saying they saw you do it, that alone could convince a jury to lock you up. Now consider if 2 or 3 witnesses were to come forward - then it's a no-brainer for the jury - they will unanimously vote to lock you up for the rest your life. That's how valuable our society has always looked at eyewitnesses.
Now considering there are HUNDREDS of documented eyewitness testimonies for the miracle that took place in Fatima, we're not all going to suddenly pretend eyewitness testimonies have no value. Ask yourself WHY so many unanimous eyewitness testimonies exist, even when all these people didn't know each other. You atheists don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to this argument, and all your bitterness and vulgarities aren't going to make these testimonials go away. Why don't we just start denying random events in history like the Civil War - after all, none of us were there and we don't know anyone who was, and we only rely on testimony passed down to us in books. Quote:Amazing how you all devalue eyewitness testimony as though it has no importance. Have you ever served on a jury? You be amazed what a defense attorney can do one of your precious "eye-witnesses" on cross examination. They can reduce them to a puddle of warm piss. And when it comes to catholick horseshit, I wouldn't trust them any more than some priest who claims he didn't fuck the altar boy. 
Jesster
Your friendly neighborhood heathen  Religious Views: I am the creator goddess. Prove me wrong.
You're starting to sound like RR now. It's no wonder I can't take you seriously.
I don't believe you. Get over it.
Where the two conflict, physical evidence - or lack thereof - eats eyewitnesses and blows them out in bubbles.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Even assuming it's all true, how do you get from "sun flying around the sky" to "therefore god"?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Eyewitness testimonies are the weakest form of evidence. They're typically used as a means to justify the gathering of forensic evidence rather than something to hinge a case on. There have been many studies on the failings of eyewitness testimony, including but not limited to:
Humans focusing on a particular thing during the event in question, thereby missing other details and trying to extrapolate from incomplete information, usually resulting in an incorrect recollection (https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/...ten-wrong/) The ability of people to be induced into remembering crimes they didn't commit: (https://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/...committed/) Etc. Moreover, if the sun actually danced and spun, well, we wouldn't be here to talk about it. Astronomy is a thing. You can't just yank a star around without serious repercussions. Also, no one else on that side of the planet saw a damn thing. You'd think the sun acting crazy would be noticed by everyone under the sun at the time. Nope. Of course, even the witness testimony doesn't line up. Some said that the sun moved in a spiral. Others said it moved east to west. Yet others said it danced. You'd think their stories would line up better than "Yeah, man, the sun totes moved. Like whoa." So, please spare us the inanity. It's a tired story, one that has more holes than the cheese in my fridge.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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