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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 3:39 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2017 at 3:40 pm by Simon Moon.)
(August 13, 2017 at 1:34 pm)pabsta Wrote: Found the PDF of the Book, "Meet the Witnesses". Enjoy - especially the part about the atheists who became believers - you should love that part. I can just picture you guys having temper tantrums on the floor after reading this -- that is if you even dare to open it. Next you'll probably attack the author, or tell us the book was never written and was completely fabricated by someone. Keep dreaming guys.
http://johnhaffert.org/wp-content/upload...-91511.pdf
[url=http://johnhaffert.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Meet-the-Witnesses-91511.pdf][/url]
And whoever asks for "more testimonials" - give me a break, like that is going to matter. If I gave you 10, you would ask for 20. If I gave you 100, you would say that's not good enough and that you need 200. I'm not wasting my time jumping through hoops for you. The book has plenty to get the point across. One way or the other I'm sure you will find a way to disregard the entire book so you can remain ticked off at the world.
Multiple anecdotal evidence does not equal good evidence.
Just google "Muslim Jinn sightings" or something similar.
You will see story after story of multiple Muslims claiming to see Jinn (supernatural beings).
Why don't you believe them?
They even have photos much more recent than Fatima.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 3:43 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2017 at 3:53 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:Found the PDF of the Book, "Meet the Witnesses".
Not through
Not broad
Full of confirmation bias
No serious cross examination
Poorly written
Offers no serious theories
My books are better they do all the above . And are not written by loons . And have already debunked the distance witness problem (not like it's serious objection)
Indeed lots of jinn accounts
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 4:10 pm
(August 13, 2017 at 1:34 pm)pabsta Wrote: Found the PDF of the Book, "Meet the Witnesses". Enjoy - especially the part about the atheists who became believers - you should love that part. I can just picture you guys having temper tantrums on the floor after reading this -- that is if you even dare to open it. Next you'll probably attack the author, or tell us the book was never written and was completely fabricated by someone. Keep dreaming guys.
http://johnhaffert.org/wp-content/upload...-91511.pdf
[url=http://johnhaffert.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Meet-the-Witnesses-91511.pdf][/url]
Written by John Haffert. A Roman Catholic author and editor. He wrote several books, mostly on Roman Catholic themes, co-founded Catholic societies, edited Catholic magazines and lectured on Catholic issues.
Yeah, he sure doesn't have an agenda. Nope, a completely unbiased researcher. 
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 4:21 pm
I got the pdf on my phone now. I definitely plan on reading. It's interesting to me to read about miracles or other supernatural incidents. One of my favorites is a book called "Possessed" which tells the true story of a boy who was possessed by the demons. It took a whole group of Jesuit priests to exorcise him.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 4:25 pm
(August 13, 2017 at 4:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I got the pdf on my phone now. I definitely plan on reading. It's interesting to me to read about miracles or other supernatural incidents. One of my favorites is a book called "Possessed" which tells the true story of a boy who was possessed by the demons. It took a whole group of Jesuit priests to exorcise him.
Oh, no...What did the book mean by "exorcise"? 
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 4:28 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2017 at 4:37 pm by Simon Moon.)
(August 13, 2017 at 4:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I got the pdf on my phone now. I definitely plan on reading. It's interesting to me to read about miracles or other supernatural incidents. One of my favorites is a book called "Possessed" which tells the true story of a boy who was possessed by the demons. It took a whole group of Jesuit priests to exorcise him.
Funny though, how you only accept miracle claims, as being true, when they stem from your religion. Yet, you don't when they stem from other religions.
Smacks of intellectual dishonesty, when the evidence you accept for Catholic miracle claims, is of the same type of evidence for miracle claims from other religions, that you do not accept.
for example, here are websites with stories of Jinn (Muslim spirit beings) possession. They are based on 'true stories'. There are many more 'true stories' of Jinn possession. Do you believe them?
https://jellani.wordpress.com/category/r...-and-wife/
http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/11/a-co...xperience/
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.ph...al-Philips
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 4:28 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2017 at 4:37 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:especially the part about the atheists who became believers - you should love that part
I have known atheists who have converted for all manor of reasons . Not all of them rational. Being an atheist does not immunize oneself from irrational conversion . All I can say is I wish them well .
Quote:I can just picture you guys having temper tantrums on the floor after reading this -- that is if you even dare to open
then i'm afraid that's an imagine that only exists in your mind . The only frustration I got from this book was the writing style .
Quote:Next you'll probably attack the author
He has a clear bias and clear agenda . Should I not take that into account as I did my own books ?
Quote:tell us the book was never written and was completely fabricated by someone. Keep dreaming guys.
Why would I do that? and the mere existence of a book means nothing to it's quality .
Quote:And whoever asks for "more testimonials" - give me a break, like that is going to matter. If I gave you 10, you would ask for 20. If I gave you 100, you would say that's not good enough and that you need 200. I'm not wasting my time jumping through hoops for you. The book has plenty to get the point across. One way or the other I'm sure you will find a way to disregard the entire book so you can remain ticked off at the world.
That is indeed your opinion . And are you saying that the book can't be in error . so I can only be right if I come to your opinion on the matter. That seems off . And do you really think invoking the tired angry atheist trope has any effect on people who have had that pieces of Christian apologetics hurled at them there whole adults lives it's almost as silly as" I hate my father " and " I just wanna sin"
(August 13, 2017 at 4:25 pm)Thena323 Wrote: (August 13, 2017 at 4:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I got the pdf on my phone now. I definitely plan on reading. It's interesting to me to read about miracles or other supernatural incidents. One of my favorites is a book called "Possessed" which tells the true story of a boy who was possessed by the demons. It took a whole group of Jesuit priests to exorcise him.
Oh, no...What did the book mean by "exorcise"? http://skepdic.com/exorcism.html
Lots of SOURCES from DOCTORS not apologists
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 4:40 pm
(August 13, 2017 at 4:25 pm)Thena323 Wrote: (August 13, 2017 at 4:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I got the pdf on my phone now. I definitely plan on reading. It's interesting to me to read about miracles or other supernatural incidents. One of my favorites is a book called "Possessed" which tells the true story of a boy who was possessed by the demons. It took a whole group of Jesuit priests to exorcise him.
Oh, no...What did the book mean by "exorcise"?
Perform an exorcism
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 4:46 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2017 at 4:50 pm by Athene.)
(August 13, 2017 at 4:28 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: (August 13, 2017 at 4:25 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Oh, no...What did the book mean by "exorcise"? http://skepdic.com/exorcism.html
Lots of SOURCES from DOCTORS not apologists
Quote:Catholic_Lady
Perform an exorcism
Sure, sure. Gotcha.
Just wanted to establish whether or not "exorcise" meant "diddling", in regards to context.
I take nothing for granted when it comes to these so-called priestly "interventions". 
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RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 13, 2017 at 4:47 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2017 at 4:47 pm by Cyberman.)
(August 13, 2017 at 4:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 13, 2017 at 4:25 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Oh, no...What did the book mean by "exorcise"?
Perform an exorcism
Rituale Romanum?
Or Mr Motivator?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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