North Korea Now Making Missile Ready Nuclear Weapons

[A Theist]

There are 10 million people in Seoul. Un has his thousands of mobile artillery munitions pointed at Seoul. Attacking Pyongyang means Seoul gets pulverized.

There's 2.5 million innocent people in Pyongyang proper. Add another 2 million to that in the surrouding areas.

4.5 million innocent people get affected by Donald Trump's decisions.

I hope that John Kelly, James Mattis, and McMasters are in Trump's ear constantly. His posturing can affect tens of millions of innocent people.

Kim Jung Un is completely innocent in all of this? 4.5 million innocent people won't be affected by the decisions he makes? He's the one who's been making threats against the U.S. and it's allies there. Trump just warned Kim against following through with those threats, otherwise NOKO will face dire consequences of fire and fury.

[SteelCurtain]

Kim Jung Un is completely innocent in all of this? 4.5 million innocent people won't be affected by the decisions he makes? He's the one who's been making threats against the U.S. and it's allies there. Trump just warned Kim against following through with those threats, otherwise NOKO will face dire consequences of fire and fury.

Not at all. Un is the most guilty. Did you miss the part where I said he has artillery pointed at Seoul? Basically holding the entire country hostage? Did I need to say that he is threatening nuclear strike against a US asset?

But the way to warn Un and his regime is not on Twitter. My argument is that we do not need to have Trump ratcheting up the rhetoric in a nuclear standoff, no matter what Un does or says. We hold the upper hand and Un knows it. But he has sycophantic yes men in his ear, and the last thing we need to do is back him into a corner. For the sake of millions of lives. If we truly think Un is a madman (and I do), why would anyone think the proper route would be to dare him?

[Sterben]

Kim Jung Un is completely innocent in all of this? 4.5 million innocent people won't be affected by the decisions he makes? He's the one who's been making threats against the U.S. and it's allies there. Trump just warned Kim against following through with those threats, otherwise NOKO will face dire consequences of fire and fury.

Not at all. Un is the most guilty. Did you miss the part where I said he has artillery pointed at Seoul? Basically holding the entire country hostage? Did I need to say that he is threatening nuclear strike against a US asset?

But the way to warn Un and his regime is not on Twitter. My argument is that we do not need to have Trump ratcheting up the rhetoric in a nuclear standoff, no matter what Un does or says. We hold the upper hand and Un knows it. But he has sycophantic yes men in his ear, and the last thing we need to do is back him into a corner. For the sake of millions of lives. If we truly think Un is a madman (and I do), why would anyone think the proper route would be to dare him?

        He will huff and puff and run to mommy after getting hit in the face by China. This whole crisis is not a crisis at all, China would never let North Korea (Or the DDPRk) whichever you fancy would step in if anything was to happen. Papa China does need to slap their little brother around though. I'm sure they are annoyed by all this as well, one would figure it's bad for business to keep allowing them to do what they are doing.

       I'm not worried about this at all, it's just a big prick waving fight between two men with small hands.

[bennyboy]

There's no evidence that Un is crazy. North Korea are the national equivalent of a porcupine. My beagle COULD kill it and eat it. . . but it's really not worth it. A porcupine will act aggressively when it feels threatened, not because it wants to goad the dog, but because it wants the dog to think twice.

Here's how this ends, I'm pretty sure: Trump is told that the moment he orders strikes, N. Korea attacks Seoul, killing many thousands of Koreans and dozens or hundreds of internationals, and he will go down in history as the dumbass that made that happen. Trump wants praise, not mockery and hatred, and slowly backs away from the idea of a military strike. Instead, China makes some token gesture, Trump calls it a huge win for his tough-guy diplomatic strategy, and N. Korea keeps announcing every 6 months that it's going to cover the world in a carpet of righteous fire.

[Rev. Rye]

There's no evidence that Un is crazy. North Korea are the national equivalent of a porcupine. My beagle COULD kill it and eat it. . . but it's really not worth it. A porcupine will act aggressively when it feels threatened, not because it wants to goad the dog, but because it wants the dog to think twice.

Here's how this ends, I'm pretty sure: Trump is told that the moment he orders strikes, N. Korea attacks Seoul, killing many thousands of Koreans and dozens or hundreds of internationals, and he will go down in history as the dumbass that made that happen. Trump wants praise, not mockery and hatred, and slowly backs away from the idea of a military strike. Instead, China makes some token gesture, Trump calls it a huge win for his tough-guy diplomatic strategy, and N. Korea keeps announcing every 6 months that it's going to cover the world in a carpet of righteous fire.

Trump wants praise, not mockery. It hasn't stopped him before.

But still, the way you describes it fits my understanding of what happens every time North Korea actually tries to use its military muscle. The moment it looks like things will really escalate, they enlist China to diplomatically smooth it out, because, while the People's Republic of China is no angel, it's clearly got enough finesse and international power to sway other nations into not destroying them and has the distinct advantage of NOT being run by three generations of total jackasses (two of whom still remain in power despite being dead).

[vorlon13]

Oh, and fuck you Susan Rice.

[Sterben]

There's no evidence that Un is crazy.  North Korea are the national equivalent of a porcupine.  My beagle COULD kill it and eat it. . . but it's really not worth it.  A porcupine will act aggressively when it feels threatened, not because it wants to goad the dog, but because it wants the dog to think twice.

Here's how this ends, I'm pretty sure: Trump is told that the moment he orders strikes, N. Korea attacks Seoul, killing many thousands of Koreans and dozens or hundreds of internationals, and he will go down in history as the dumbass that made that happen.  Trump wants praise, not mockery and hatred, and slowly backs away from the idea of a military strike.  Instead, China makes some token gesture, Trump calls it a huge win for his tough-guy diplomatic strategy, and N. Korea keeps announcing every 6 months that it's going to cover the world in a carpet of righteous fire.

Trump wants praise, not mockery. It hasn't stopped him before.

But still, the way you describes it fits my understanding of what happens every time North Korea actually tries to use its military muscle. The moment it looks like things will really escalate, they enlist China to diplomatically smooth it out, because, while the People's Republic of China is no angel, it's clearly got enough finesse and international power to sway other nations into not destroying them and has the distinct advantage of NOT being run by three generations of total jackasses (two of whom still remain in power despite being dead).

        Who's up for a vacation to North Korea?

[Thumpalumpacus]

[quote pid='1599841' dateline='1502292736']
Even a conventional war would cause mass death. If you think two simple air strikes will cause his population to overthrow Kim, you are fooling yourself.

North Korea has a modern air-defense system, don't they?  What makes anyone believe that the West/US can successfully launch a bombing strike?  The only successes that we have had have been against 3rd/4th World nations.  Even Trump was too afraid to send US warplanes into Syrian airspace for fear that they would be shot down.

[/quote]

The majority of their equipment, including the command-and-control system, is outdated Soviet gear and a similar doctrine that had severe troubles 26 years ago in Iraq, and even longer ago in the Bekaa Valley. It's true they have some modern gear, but it hasn't been combat-tested -- while American equipment and doctrine has. I'd be willing to bet a multi-unit strike package could probably get 'er done.

The Russians had an S-400 system installed there, which is a much more modern system. North Korea might have more integration in its system, but it is a system Americans have faced in one form or another since the 60s, and have learnt to crack.

[Javaman]

It kinda feels like we've reached the point that we have no option but to hope that Trump's belligerence will actually work. He's tripled down, and he either wins or the whole world ends in a nuclear holocaust. It's like this weird attempt to out-do Un at his own crazy game, but for no real gain.

I vacillate between being terrified and complacent.

Should we emerge from this with only global ecological catastrophe to worry about, we can start discussing how the USA is no longer worthy to be the leader of the free world, I guess.

[A Theist]

It kinda feels like we've reached the point that we have no option but to hope that Trump's belligerence will actually work. He's tripled down, and he either wins or the whole world ends in a nuclear holocaust. It's like this weird attempt to out-do Un at his own crazy game, but for no real gain.

I vacillate between being terrified and complacent.

Should we emerge from this with only global ecological catastrophe to worry about, we can start discussing how the USA is no longer worthy to be the leader of the free world, I guess.

How much would you bet that this all blows over and nothing happens from either side? I saw twice on the news yesterday that it was reported by "sources" in the State Department that the U.S. and NOKO are involved in back door negotiations, "supposedly" discussing the release of three Americans that have been held there for a while. Kim and company are evidently taking Trump's warnings of retaliation seriously. Also on the news, China warned NOKO that if it struck at the U.S. first NOKO was on its own. Anyway, according to Kim's big mouth, everything is supposed to go down the middle of next week. So we'll see. If it does, good bye Kim. Or, at the very least, good bye to Kim's nuclear weapons and facilities.